Northside Reef
Premium Member
As for the rock work here are some pictures of some of the construction (I wish they would have come out better I would have made a thread about it if they did):
Restarting an old 280 build
- Thread starter Northside Reef
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Northside Reef
Premium Member
Northside Reef
Premium Member
So a pallet just arrived I guess I have some salt now:
Still need to put that WC system together. number one priority after I put the shed back together.
Still need to put that WC system together. number one priority after I put the shed back together.
TropTrea
New member
I love a lot things you did throughout your thread. My system is simular but on a considerably smaller scale 4 tanks totaling 240 Gallons on my display plus a total water column of 350 Gallons.
You have given me some great ideas for improving my system. The first will be rewoking the drains on my Refugium Vat. Right now when there is a water outage I loose roughly 1" of water which means I get roughly an added 30 gallons into return sump which causes an overflow.
The other think I'm looking at is your rock work. What are the orange rods in your pictures ? did you simply use a concrete drill to drill through the rock to get then to line up like that?
While my system is up for almost 7 years now I'm starting starting to get some issues with my fine sand bed. I built it on the deep sand bed priniple and it had worked fantasticly for the first 4 years. Then it started to slowly decline and right now I'm wondering if has even changed from a nitrogen comound removal system to a nitrogen coumpound factory. So I'm sorruy I did not go with a slightly more course substrate.
You have given me some great ideas for improving my system. The first will be rewoking the drains on my Refugium Vat. Right now when there is a water outage I loose roughly 1" of water which means I get roughly an added 30 gallons into return sump which causes an overflow.
The other think I'm looking at is your rock work. What are the orange rods in your pictures ? did you simply use a concrete drill to drill through the rock to get then to line up like that?
While my system is up for almost 7 years now I'm starting starting to get some issues with my fine sand bed. I built it on the deep sand bed priniple and it had worked fantasticly for the first 4 years. Then it started to slowly decline and right now I'm wondering if has even changed from a nitrogen comound removal system to a nitrogen coumpound factory. So I'm sorruy I did not go with a slightly more course substrate.
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Heya Trop, thank you for the feedback. The orange rods are fiberglass rods I purchased at HD (they're the orange stakes we put in the ground here in MN so we can see where the driveway ends when everything is under snow. Keeps us from driving on the grass).
Yes I used a concrete bit:
two of them in fact one 3/16 as a pilot and on at 5/16 to match the fiberglass rod diameter:
Yeah the flow back when power is out was something I really needed to fine tune since I have so many tanks the flow back really adds up. I also made one more additional change I will get pictures of and post later. But I made sure the drain line is below the inlet side so I do not flow back that way as well. Even though I put in double check valves for the inlet side those things do have a reputation of failing. Even with these changed I still needed to upgrade my sump to make sure even if the check valves fail I have the capacity to hold ALL of the possible water that could end up coming back down to the main sump.
Yes I used a concrete bit:
two of them in fact one 3/16 as a pilot and on at 5/16 to match the fiberglass rod diameter:
Yeah the flow back when power is out was something I really needed to fine tune since I have so many tanks the flow back really adds up. I also made one more additional change I will get pictures of and post later. But I made sure the drain line is below the inlet side so I do not flow back that way as well. Even though I put in double check valves for the inlet side those things do have a reputation of failing. Even with these changed I still needed to upgrade my sump to make sure even if the check valves fail I have the capacity to hold ALL of the possible water that could end up coming back down to the main sump.
Northside Reef
Premium Member
So for those who may possibly following this thread I have a plumbing question. It's more of a after the fact question but it was on my mind and I was hoping I could get some feedback.
I redid some plumbing on my build, the reason was I was not getting as much flow out of my reservoir as what was flowing into it so I had to choke the pump down. I am sure the main issue was too much horizontal and not enough vertical drop from the reservoir to the return sump. But I was wondering also if I possibly should have vented those return lines better?
Any thoughts?
Here is the old plumbing. You can see those return line enter the sump and go below the water line.
The two 90's the lead into the return sump. Do you think I should have made T's and vented those? Would that have helped the flow back into the return sump?
I added the T's on the new plumbing because I wondered about that after the fact. It looks like this.
Also the new plumbing with the better drop on the return lines (as best I can get because I did not want to stop reassembly to take pictures I just wanted it done.
I redid some plumbing on my build, the reason was I was not getting as much flow out of my reservoir as what was flowing into it so I had to choke the pump down. I am sure the main issue was too much horizontal and not enough vertical drop from the reservoir to the return sump. But I was wondering also if I possibly should have vented those return lines better?
Any thoughts?
Here is the old plumbing. You can see those return line enter the sump and go below the water line.
The two 90's the lead into the return sump. Do you think I should have made T's and vented those? Would that have helped the flow back into the return sump?
I added the T's on the new plumbing because I wondered about that after the fact. It looks like this.
Also the new plumbing with the better drop on the return lines (as best I can get because I did not want to stop reassembly to take pictures I just wanted it done.
TropTrea
New member
I know that some of my original issues was simular to yours. There are canculators that give you the flow of water from a pump through various piping arangments. However the calculators are very inaccurate when it comes to a gravity feed system. You can basicly feed water through 1 1/2 inch pipe with a pump at say 800 gallons per hour however when it comes to gravity flowing water through the same 1 1/2 pipe it the rate may be somewhere between 400 and 750 gallons per hour. The fix for me was using larger diameter piping for my drains. Basicly I'm using 2" piping on all my drains that are gravity feeed while the lines off my pipe are running through 1 1/4 inch pumping. This not only works for me but it also goves me some room to spare in the prevention of any back ups. Now your pump itself can also be a big factor here as different pumps have different flow rates at different amounts of lift.
Some other things to consider on both lines.
1. the resistance to flow is caused by the friction of the water to the sides of the pipe.
therefore the longer the run the more resistance you will have.
2. any change in the direction of the flow will cause resistance to the flow.
therefore every 45 degree or 90 degree bend will slow the flow down.
Some other things to consider on both lines.
1. the resistance to flow is caused by the friction of the water to the sides of the pipe.
therefore the longer the run the more resistance you will have.
2. any change in the direction of the flow will cause resistance to the flow.
therefore every 45 degree or 90 degree bend will slow the flow down.
TropTrea
New member
I have reduced the back flow through small fine tunng but I will still get an ocassional overflow from my sump whenever there is power outage. My thoughts right now is to add an actual overflow to the sump itself so it the water levenl gets to high it will overflow into a holding tank.
I remember the first time this happened with my sump being about 30 gallon capacity it was full at the time of the power outage. The back flow went on to the ground which was no big issue as it is my basement with a concrete floor and drain nearby. But when the power came back on it pumped the sump dry meaning I lost roughly 30 gallons of water. If I would not have home at the time and the pump were running dry for long enough it could possibly burn it up.
since then I set up a auto feed of my RO water into the sump to try and maintain a constant level. So with a 35 gpd it would get my sump working again after about 3 hours from the point of it going dry. It also means that I now only have about 20 gallons in my sump normally with a 30 plus capacity so the amount of over flow is reduced on a power outage.
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Yes, the number of 90's I originally had looked like a mistake as well. I eliminated all of them (4 per line old plumbing) and replaced them with 2 45s each, plus that T at the end.
One of the local reefers also suggested if I continue to have issues with the gravity feed returns to go with larger pipe. So if the flow is still not where I need it to be that is where I will turn next.
I really hope the greater slope helps take care of the issue. I am gravity flowing down from the three refugium tubs with 2 1.5" lines and from there I am keeping up with the pump. it's just from the reservoir to the return sump I am not. And from the reservoir I have 3 1.5" gravity lines 2 to the return sump and one to the chiller station. BUT I am using gate valves and trying to control where that water flows. so I can direct some of the return through that chiller station.
I hope to have the WC mix station done today and some touch up plumbing done this weekend so if all goes well I will be making water for the main display by next week. I will get the 280 on line first and then add the 92 once I am satisfied that everything is working up to that point. once those two tanks are on line I will add in the 45. Those three tanks can spend the next few months cycling while I finish the rest of the system. Lights, skimmer, ATO, and the like.
One of the local reefers also suggested if I continue to have issues with the gravity feed returns to go with larger pipe. So if the flow is still not where I need it to be that is where I will turn next.
I really hope the greater slope helps take care of the issue. I am gravity flowing down from the three refugium tubs with 2 1.5" lines and from there I am keeping up with the pump. it's just from the reservoir to the return sump I am not. And from the reservoir I have 3 1.5" gravity lines 2 to the return sump and one to the chiller station. BUT I am using gate valves and trying to control where that water flows. so I can direct some of the return through that chiller station.
I hope to have the WC mix station done today and some touch up plumbing done this weekend so if all goes well I will be making water for the main display by next week. I will get the 280 on line first and then add the 92 once I am satisfied that everything is working up to that point. once those two tanks are on line I will add in the 45. Those three tanks can spend the next few months cycling while I finish the rest of the system. Lights, skimmer, ATO, and the like.
TropTrea
New member
Yes gate valves do cause a lot of resistance to flow when they are not open all the way. Splitting the flow from a gravity feed line that is not dropping the water a great distance can surely be a challenge. Ideas are flowing through my head but hopefully what you have now will do the job for you and you won't have to do any more modifications.
Personaly I think yyou have a lot more patience than I ever had. I never could work on project like this for long as you have. When I start something I want to see the results ASAP. Unfortunatly budgeting and time restraints do slow us down on ocassion.
Personaly I think yyou have a lot more patience than I ever had. I never could work on project like this for long as you have. When I start something I want to see the results ASAP. Unfortunatly budgeting and time restraints do slow us down on ocassion.
Northside Reef
Premium Member
lol well for results sometimes I look back at the couple of threads I have going and watch the overall progress. I mean I remember when that filter shed was nothing but stud walls. Same for the fish room. Like you said budgeting is a real factor so is being a family man with more responsibilities than build an aquarium system. So I'm OK as long as there is progress. These threads are a huge motivator though not just in wanting to post the next update, but also looking back to see how far I've come.
Speaking of progress:
Finished the mix station today
hope to be making SW next week!
Speaking of progress:
Finished the mix station today
hope to be making SW next week!
Northside Reef
Premium Member
without a doubt the best part about this build going on as many years as it has, has been spreading out the cost over all of those years.
TropTrea
New member
And then when you think your done there will be the changes. The biggest ones for me was going from metal hides and compacts, to HO-T-5's, and now converting to LED's. Other little things were modifications on my skimming system which I'm still not happy with but don;t want to drop another K all at once on it. I have other projects and there are always the unexpected that was not budgeted for.
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Not a great weekend for getting anything done. had some family matters that needed my attention far more than this tank.
I did manage to get a few things done earlier so I thought I would post an update.
Here is where I left off with the plumbing coming back down to the tank:
This was pretty much the extent of the flow I had prior to the last change:
pretty good velocity but until I get the new plumbing up and running I won't know what I have. I decided to go with three 3/4" lines per return line. I think that should be fine but I will find out soon enough. what I have is 1.5" return lines the T off into three 1" lines then from there into 3/4" loc line.
So it looks like this coming in to the tank:
I also received my new sump from ArstenA. He really does nice work (when his wife let's him ).
This one holds about 3 times as much as my old sump which evidently looked a lot bigger than it was lol. I really should have done the math and figured out what the volume of that sump was. It will make a really nice frag tank for someone when I put up up for sale for super cheap. But that will be later.
I need to get that new sump plumbed up for now.
If all goes well I should be making water tonight. I decided for the first few batches I will skip the sexy WC mix station I made and just use the 325 as a mixer since I will need really large batches.
I did manage to get a few things done earlier so I thought I would post an update.
Here is where I left off with the plumbing coming back down to the tank:
This was pretty much the extent of the flow I had prior to the last change:
pretty good velocity but until I get the new plumbing up and running I won't know what I have. I decided to go with three 3/4" lines per return line. I think that should be fine but I will find out soon enough. what I have is 1.5" return lines the T off into three 1" lines then from there into 3/4" loc line.
So it looks like this coming in to the tank:
I also received my new sump from ArstenA. He really does nice work (when his wife let's him
).
This one holds about 3 times as much as my old sump which evidently looked a lot bigger than it was lol. I really should have done the math and figured out what the volume of that sump was. It will make a really nice frag tank for someone when I put up up for sale for super cheap. But that will be later.
I need to get that new sump plumbed up for now.
If all goes well I should be making water tonight. I decided for the first few batches I will skip the sexy WC mix station I made and just use the 325 as a mixer since I will need really large batches.
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Water making has been REALLY slow lol I need to get my other RO unit up and running.
I am using my old (from my first build) RO unit and I was curious to see if it would even work after all of these years in storage. I wrapped it in shrink wrap about 6 years ago because I was worried the membrane might dry out (I am not sure this is even an issue I know nothing about these things) but to be on the safe side I wrapped it up.
I replaced all of the filter cartridges (5 stage unit) and the TDS reading is 4 out of the first four stages and 0 after the DI stage. So I think the membrane is fine.
I have more filter cartridges on order for the other unit and will get it on line as soon as they come in. I am just glad the old units made it. I've already spent enough on this build as it is.
I am using my old (from my first build) RO unit and I was curious to see if it would even work after all of these years in storage. I wrapped it in shrink wrap about 6 years ago because I was worried the membrane might dry out (I am not sure this is even an issue I know nothing about these things) but to be on the safe side I wrapped it up.
I replaced all of the filter cartridges (5 stage unit) and the TDS reading is 4 out of the first four stages and 0 after the DI stage. So I think the membrane is fine.
I have more filter cartridges on order for the other unit and will get it on line as soon as they come in. I am just glad the old units made it. I've already spent enough on this build as it is.
jdm18honda
Member
i am really enjoying that thread it has a little bit of everything in it
i really like the sunlit refuges
i really like the sunlit refuges
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Thanks
added my old 45g per day RO unit to help speed things up. I am glad I did because the 75g RO unit did not have a gauge on it to tell me my incoming water pressure was only 28 PSI so that explains why I am getting no where near 75g per day out of the first RO unit.
So I ordered 150G upgrade kit for my 75G per day unit and then a booster pump to bring the pressure up enough to drive it all.
I also ordered another gauge for the 75G RO unit so I can see the before and after results. So hopefully that booster pump does what it's supposed to do and I can get some salt water in this thing.
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Thank you!
OK so booster pump arrived today as well as the 150 GPD upgrade to my RO unit.
Very painless. Real pleased with the results and I highly recommend doing this if your pressure is low.
Before (note that my old gauge was reading wrong (or the new one is
)
After
This is just a shot of the TDS meter before I put the booster on.
Before the DI filter (I have it on the "IN" of the meter):
After the DI filter:
I am still not at 325 gallon in the large reservoir so there is no way I was getting anywhere close to 75GPD out of that unit. But I was also not at the recommended PSI so hopefully now I can make some progress.
