Well sounds like a great time to get back on TCMAS!! lol Keep up the great work, looking forward to some more updates!
Restarting an old 280 build
- Thread starter Northside Reef
- Start date
Well sounds like a great time to get back on TCMAS!! lol Keep up the great work, looking forward to some more updates!
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Well everything has been running well. I did not find any more leaks so today I shut the system down. I am going to leave the water in it just so I don't have to fill the entire thing once I get the shed done.
I built the different platforms I will need for the gravity feed for the shed system. I'll get some pics up later it is self explanatory once you see it. Surprisingly it looks an awful lot like the old concept drawing lol:
Although yesterday when I was working in there I probably rearranged everything (in my mind
) about a dozen times. I think the original design is still the best.
on a different topic, I had a question on UPS's in this thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2207583
I am a little concerned about flow back if power goes out. I think the sump will handle the flow back but have not tested it yet. I have a couple of options here.
The (tank) sump has an area I plan to plumb over to the (house) sump if it overfills. Of course that really does me no good if power is out. it will just flood the house sump and then the house if that system can't handle the extra water. I think this all probably just moot though. the sump+additional space for overfill in the sump + the house sump reservoir should have ample room for the 20' x2" hose I have going up to the shed if it were to drain back. It needs to be tested.
So option one is to not worry about it if all the water fits into the planned flow-back sumps.
Option two requires a UPS I am looking at this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102145
full sine wave it will run anything my house can run (this one will run a 300 watt pump for about 30 minutes) and it will even send me a text letting me know power went out. I like option two enough to seriously consider one for the main pump and one for some power heads in the tank. Does anyone have any experience using these or a better backup plan for if power goes out and I am not home?
Thanks
I built the different platforms I will need for the gravity feed for the shed system. I'll get some pics up later it is self explanatory once you see it. Surprisingly it looks an awful lot like the old concept drawing lol:
Although yesterday when I was working in there I probably rearranged everything (in my mind
) about a dozen times. I think the original design is still the best.on a different topic, I had a question on UPS's in this thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2207583
I am a little concerned about flow back if power goes out. I think the sump will handle the flow back but have not tested it yet. I have a couple of options here.
The (tank) sump has an area I plan to plumb over to the (house) sump if it overfills. Of course that really does me no good if power is out. it will just flood the house sump and then the house if that system can't handle the extra water. I think this all probably just moot though. the sump+additional space for overfill in the sump + the house sump reservoir should have ample room for the 20' x2" hose I have going up to the shed if it were to drain back. It needs to be tested.
So option one is to not worry about it if all the water fits into the planned flow-back sumps.
Option two requires a UPS I am looking at this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102145
full sine wave it will run anything my house can run (this one will run a 300 watt pump for about 30 minutes) and it will even send me a text letting me know power went out. I like option two enough to seriously consider one for the main pump and one for some power heads in the tank. Does anyone have any experience using these or a better backup plan for if power goes out and I am not home?
Thanks
I had to have that ball valve on the hammerhead turned pretty far or the pump was just slamming the water out of that sump and the overflow could not keep up. I imagine when I add another 12' of head pressure I won't have that issue. But I have been originally thinking I may need a booster pump in the fish shed Now I am not too sure. I will have to plumb a bypass in and see. it would be awesome if I could get by with just one return pump. I am going to let this run for a couple of days and then drain it. Meanwhile It is time to move the project back to the fish shed and get that room plumbed up next.
The intake of the pump should be unrestricted, the valve should be open. If I recall correctly it affects the pumps performance/life. if you want to restrict flow do it on the output side, hard to tell from the pic but on the output it appears to be a backflow preventor. add a valve between the pump and the backflow if not already there
LOL never mind I see a valve in another pic; to help with your power out/water overflow question.. a backflow preventor valve maybe a good option.. although over a period of time it will not completely stop water it will slow it down a lot... if you can keepup on maintenance it will work longer term
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Now you have double the motivation as that other thread is getting old too :lmao:
Northside Reef
Premium Member
yeah that valve is restricted only because the pump is missing some 12' of head pressure and was over powering the return and the sump. That hammerhead can push 6000 gallons of water p/h. Much less at the 20' of head pressure it will actually be seeing. The pump will go all the way up to the filter shed and to the highest Rubbermaid tub, and flow back down through the rest of the system from there. I think when I ran the numbers it was going to be much closer to 600 gallons per hour but it's been forever so I may be wrong..
TropTrea
New member
On the over flow. When I designed my system everything I read and calculated said my overflow system should be able to handle 750 gallons per hour. As I set up my return pump with the head height calculations I should have only be been getting 350 gph to the tank. But guess what if I ran it as calculated the tank started to over flow in roughly an hour after I started everything up. The only way I could preven this was trottling back the return with a ball valve or going with a smaller pump. I took the valve route. Right now the pump has been running for 5 years without an issue.
My other issue that I'm not in love with and would have done differently is the use of the white spa hoses to give some flex in my plumbing. At each of these connection there is no sign of leakage however I do get an endless salt creep.
Now a few question for you. You mention a fish shed. Is this a completly seperate building? If so how are you running the plumbing between the two? And the Minesota winters do get COLD so how are you keeping the piping from freezing up or at least causing a big temp drop[?
My other issue that I'm not in love with and would have done differently is the use of the white spa hoses to give some flex in my plumbing. At each of these connection there is no sign of leakage however I do get an endless salt creep.
Now a few question for you. You mention a fish shed. Is this a completly seperate building? If so how are you running the plumbing between the two? And the Minesota winters do get COLD so how are you keeping the piping from freezing up or at least causing a big temp drop[?
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Heya Trop,
everything you could ever want to know about the fish shed is in the beginning of this thread. But long story short it is an addition onto the house that is insulated and heated for the winter and air conditioned for the summer. The hose just runs straights through the wall above the ceiling in the fish room and at floor level in the fish shed.
Hmm well that is the exact reason I used the Spa Flex as well. I will watch for the salt creep
everything you could ever want to know about the fish shed is in the beginning of this thread. But long story short it is an addition onto the house that is insulated and heated for the winter and air conditioned for the summer. The hose just runs straights through the wall above the ceiling in the fish room and at floor level in the fish shed.
Hmm well that is the exact reason I used the Spa Flex as well. I will watch for the salt creep
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Well I had hoped I would have more done this weekend, but too many real home projects needed to be done instead.
I did manage to get the top half of the fish shed done. That is where I have the three 100 gallon Rubbermaid tubs. I also put in bypasses so I can take some or all of them out of service if I need to work on them.
Here is what I have so far, it's pretty hard to get pictures again because the space is so small. This is about the best I can do. This pic shows the three tubs and the two platform I made so all three can be at different heights for the gravity feed down to the lower half of the fish shed. You can also see the solar tubs over a couple of the tubs.
Here you can see some of the bypass plumbing and the top of the tubs with the gasketed covers on them.
Close up of the plumbing from one tub to the other.
That's all I really have for now. I did end up rearranging the entire lower section after all, that was quite the project. Limited space, large heavy objects and me doing it all by myself. I must have done something right, I didn't break anything including myself.. I hope to get on that lower section next weekend. I don't know if I will get to testing it. I like the glue to set for at least 24 hours.
.
I did manage to get the top half of the fish shed done. That is where I have the three 100 gallon Rubbermaid tubs. I also put in bypasses so I can take some or all of them out of service if I need to work on them.
Here is what I have so far, it's pretty hard to get pictures again because the space is so small. This is about the best I can do. This pic shows the three tubs and the two platform I made so all three can be at different heights for the gravity feed down to the lower half of the fish shed. You can also see the solar tubs over a couple of the tubs.
Here you can see some of the bypass plumbing and the top of the tubs with the gasketed covers on them.
Close up of the plumbing from one tub to the other.
That's all I really have for now. I did end up rearranging the entire lower section after all, that was quite the project. Limited space, large heavy objects and me doing it all by myself. I must have done something right, I didn't break anything including myself
.. I hope to get on that lower section next weekend. I don't know if I will get to testing it. I like the glue to set for at least 24 hours..
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Well I got a lot of the equipment room main plumbing done. I will post pics on Sunday. WOW! that was a lot more work than I thought and I still have loose ends to clean up.
It was a real puzzle to put together.
I ordered a couple of these for my water mixing station and I plan to completely rip off this design:
It will tuck in nicely under the scaffold I put in the equipment room so I could work on the upper deck where the 100 gallon refugiums are.
Getting there slow but sure.
It was a real puzzle to put together.
I ordered a couple of these for my water mixing station and I plan to completely rip off this design:
It will tuck in nicely under the scaffold I put in the equipment room so I could work on the upper deck where the 100 gallon refugiums are.
Getting there slow but sure.
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Progress pics, I know this is taking forever:
Next up is the lower half of the equipment room.
Front
Left
Right
Next up is the lower half of the equipment room.
Front
Left
Right
Northside Reef
Premium Member
And inside:
The sink is plumbed and working:
I decided that I wanted the main reservoir to circulate so I put in a pump to move the water around the room with several breakouts to add in the skimmer, calc reactor, ATS, and a couple extra for whatever. The reservoir also has a breakout right at the sink to dump water for water changes (seen above).
Recirc pump off of reservoir:
During a water change I plan to bypass the reservoir and dump a predetermined amount out of the reservoir. I will have level indicators marked on the reservoir so I know how much to take out and how much to put back in.
The valves on the back wall here and to the side are for that purpose:
The water returns back to the tank from the upper sump/future frag tank
through the wall (I will be using "Great Stuff" to fill those holes back in):
The sink is plumbed and working:
I decided that I wanted the main reservoir to circulate so I put in a pump to move the water around the room with several breakouts to add in the skimmer, calc reactor, ATS, and a couple extra for whatever. The reservoir also has a breakout right at the sink to dump water for water changes (seen above).
Recirc pump off of reservoir:
During a water change I plan to bypass the reservoir and dump a predetermined amount out of the reservoir. I will have level indicators marked on the reservoir so I know how much to take out and how much to put back in.
The valves on the back wall here and to the side are for that purpose:
The water returns back to the tank from the upper sump/future frag tank
through the wall (I will be using "Great Stuff" to fill those holes back in):
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Northside Reef
Premium Member
In addition to the main tank, there will be a seahorse tank.
But what I did not know about seahorses is they had to be kept at a lower temperature than what I will be keeping my reef at. I made the "Finding Nemo" mistake of promising my daughter we would have seahorses before I knew anything about seahorses.
So this meant I would have to figure out a way to get the reef water temp down to the 74 degrees I would need for the seahorses.
What I designed was a chiller station. It is hard to see but it is a 1/2 chiller recirculating through a 40 gallon reservoir that is fed off the main reservoir.
This all needs to be plumbed still
The seahorse tank will be plumbed into the main sump below the Main DT so the entire reef + seahorse tank is all on one system. That's pretty much where I am at, I don't know when it will be done. I still have a lot of work to do.
As you can see here I still have to hook up the upper level to the lower lever. the shot is of the bypass valve for the upper level and the pipes coming down to the lower level.
But what I did not know about seahorses is they had to be kept at a lower temperature than what I will be keeping my reef at. I made the "Finding Nemo" mistake of promising my daughter we would have seahorses before I knew anything about seahorses.
So this meant I would have to figure out a way to get the reef water temp down to the 74 degrees I would need for the seahorses.
What I designed was a chiller station. It is hard to see but it is a 1/2 chiller recirculating through a 40 gallon reservoir that is fed off the main reservoir.
This all needs to be plumbed still
The seahorse tank will be plumbed into the main sump below the Main DT so the entire reef + seahorse tank is all on one system. That's pretty much where I am at, I don't know when it will be done. I still have a lot of work to do.
As you can see here I still have to hook up the upper level to the lower lever. the shot is of the bypass valve for the upper level and the pipes coming down to the lower level.
Northside Reef
Premium Member
The chiller station hooked up, although I am having second thoughts about my original idea to have the intake come directly off the warm water coming in from the reservoir.
Looks like this:
I plan to put some insulation in front of that chiller tank to keep the heater from blowing on it.
Side view:
I started out with hot water just to give the chiller a chance to kick on. Maybe too hot, but it did cool down.
and a couple more shots for grins:
The reservoir:
Looks like this:
I plan to put some insulation in front of that chiller tank to keep the heater from blowing on it.
Side view:
I started out with hot water just to give the chiller a chance to kick on. Maybe too hot, but it did cool down.
and a couple more shots for grins:
The reservoir:
Northside Reef
Premium Member
I think I am the only one who reads this thread lol. That's OK it is kind of cathartic to keep it going:
anticipation is killing me. and you would think something that has taken me this long to get going I would have a lot more patience.
The upper level is full (NO LEAKS!!!) and I am now waiting for the tank to fill so I can turn the return pump on and see what I have.
Here a a couple of pics while I wait (I really need something to do)
Water draining from one tub to the next:
the recirculation pump in the reservoir is on and doing a nice job of moving things around to mix the reservoir water with the incoming water from the tubs:
here is what it looks like full:
The lower level plumbing is in (sort of) I have the tank pulled away from the wall so I can fix any leaks I find when I turn it back on:
so this is what it looks like with the hose feeding the tank: (Those are temporary lines until I get the tank up against the wall).
I have the water dropping from the height on purpose so I can see how much is coming out of each line. It's S L O W as you can see.
The black line is from the chiller station it will feed the future seahorse tank. This is all from the garden hose, I hope it's (the flow) a lot better with the return pump on.
I did fix one leak I knew I had, I replaced this valve: (the valve off the return pump)
with this one: the shorter valve made that transition a lot smoother
So that killed some time tank is about half full (or half empty depending on who you are )
anticipation is killing me. and you would think something that has taken me this long to get going I would have a lot more patience.
The upper level is full (NO LEAKS!!!) and I am now waiting for the tank to fill so I can turn the return pump on and see what I have.
Here a a couple of pics while I wait (I really need something to do)
Water draining from one tub to the next:
the recirculation pump in the reservoir is on and doing a nice job of moving things around to mix the reservoir water with the incoming water from the tubs:
here is what it looks like full:
The lower level plumbing is in (sort of) I have the tank pulled away from the wall so I can fix any leaks I find when I turn it back on:
so this is what it looks like with the hose feeding the tank: (Those are temporary lines until I get the tank up against the wall).
I have the water dropping from the height on purpose so I can see how much is coming out of each line. It's S L O W as you can see.
The black line is from the chiller station it will feed the future seahorse tank. This is all from the garden hose, I hope it's (the flow) a lot better with the return pump on.
I did fix one leak I knew I had, I replaced this valve: (the valve off the return pump)
with this one: the shorter valve made that transition a lot smoother
So that killed some time
tank is about half full (or half empty depending on who you are )
Northside Reef
Premium Member
So flow is better. actually the pump pumps faster up then the water comes back down so it will drain the sump, then suck in an air bubble slow down and then repeat.
I really thought the 1.5" returns would have kept up but they don't. So I will have to go with a plan B.
I am going to add another 1.5" line through all of the (refugium) tanks and off of the reservoir to the return sump. Since it is just an add on to aid flow I won't need all of the fancy plumbing for the bypasses, just tank to tank. I probably do not need a ball valve but I think I will use the double slip cheapos from Marine Depot since I'll need a union to make the connection anyhow.
this is not a good picture because the flow down lags. because the pump will surge then grab air and bog. I will need to get a lot more flow down than what I have.
Ordered everything, but I have to go out of town for a couple of weeks so it will have to wait until I return. at least everything will be here by then.
I really thought the 1.5" returns would have kept up but they don't. So I will have to go with a plan B.
I am going to add another 1.5" line through all of the (refugium) tanks and off of the reservoir to the return sump. Since it is just an add on to aid flow I won't need all of the fancy plumbing for the bypasses, just tank to tank. I probably do not need a ball valve but I think I will use the double slip cheapos from Marine Depot since I'll need a union to make the connection anyhow.
this is not a good picture because the flow down lags. because the pump will surge then grab air and bog. I will need to get a lot more flow down than what I have.
Ordered everything, but I have to go out of town for a couple of weeks so it will have to wait until I return. at least everything will be here by then.
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Newbie Aquarist
Reefing is my middle name
Would chucking down the return pump balance that out?
Northside Reef
Premium Member
I think it would but it would be so slow I don't think I would like the turnover. I think I would be better served if I increase the return flow. as you can see it is not much more than a trickle on the return.
and PS thanks for checking in lol I was feeling like the lone ranger on this thread.
and PS thanks for checking in lol I was feeling like the lone ranger on this thread.
SUPPOReefer
New member
Just found the thread, but read the entire thing. Definitely tagging along. What is the total system volume? Looks like you are pushing well over 1000 gallons for a 280 gallon display.
Newbie Aquarist
Reefing is my middle name
I don't know how you can measure but if you are using wave makers in the tank you want an estimate of 4 - 7 times the tank volume.
