Return Pump Question- Need HELP

[TonyTheTiger]

I am in need of some advice! I have a 90 gallon reef and recently picked up a CPR CS 800 gph overflow. I need a return pump that will compliment the overflow coming from my 20 gallon sump. What pump would you recommend. It would need a head of between 4-5 feet. Do I try to match the overflow potential or stay under that gph, seems like I would want to be under that 800gph a bit so I do not end up with water all over my floor. any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. i do not know much about setting up a sump! Thanks in advance for all the help.

 

[ChemE]

The return pump you select needs to be less than 800 gph at 4' of head no matter what or it will overflow the display since the overflow won't be able to keep up.

The best pump would exactly match the flow rate recommended by your skimmer. If you have yet to select a skimmer, you could target the 3x-5x tank turnover range (270-450 gph at 4' of head) to ensure that you have a return pump which is large enough without being too large and power hungry. An Eheim 1260 fits the bill here but will consume around 65 watts continuously. This adds up to 47.48 kWh/month. I pay around $0.10/kWh so this pump would cost me $4.75/month to run.

If you'd like to be a bit more miserly with regard to electricity, you could select a return pump which gives you 1.0-1.5 tank turnovers per hour which for most tanks is the minimum which will keep the display surface clear of scum and keep the skimmer supplied with dirty water. If you go this route, you need to plumb 100% of the raw overflow water directly into the skimmer (which is actually the most reasonable thing to do anyway) so that it has a healthy diet of garbage to skim out. If you go this route, an Eheim hobby 1250 is the ideal choice which will give you 165 gph at 4' of head and consume 28 watts (20.45 kWh/month). A Maxi-Jet 1200 will put out 86 gph at 4' and consume 13 watts (based on my own experiments, the head loss calculator lies). A MJ1200 will consume 9.5 kWh/month and would cost a scant $0.95/month to run.

Whatever you do don't fall into the trap some people do of using a grossly oversized return pump. This could lead to heat, noise, and microbubble issues and will cost more to buy and run while producing no benefit. As an example, I'm sure there are people here on RC which run Mag12 as a return pump for their 90. This is sucking 110 watts continuously which is 80.36 kWh/month which would cost me $8.04/month.

 

[sjm817]

If you are concerned with water all over your floor, that CPR overflow is your biggest problem. They are notoriously unreliable. They can not maintain a siphon on their own and rely on a vacuum pump to do so. Any malfunction is a potential for a problem. One common issue is the air nipple on the top of the c channel clogs rendering the vacuum pump useless.

On the return pump, I ran an Eheim 1260 with a 90G, but had a larger sump (40G). Really nice pump, but would be a lot of flow through a 20G sump. Something smaller like an Eheim 1250 would work well.

 

[jer77]

I think 3-5X the total tank and sump size is a good range for the return pump. I add in the sump volume too because with a larger sump the stronger the pump can be. So I'd say between 330-550 gph with 4'-5' head loss. I'd say an Eheim 1260 would be perfect for you. An Eheim 1250 would only be around 2X tank size with 4-5' head which would be too little flow IMO.

 

[fishgirl7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9564050#post9564050 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
If you are concerned with water all over your floor, that CPR overflow is your biggest problem. They are notoriously unreliable. They can not maintain a siphon on their own and rely on a vacuum pump to do so. Any malfunction is a potential for a problem. One common issue is the air nipple on the top of the c channel clogs rendering the vacuum pump useless.

On the return pump, I ran an Eheim 1260 with a 90G, but had a larger sump (40G). Really nice pump, but would be a lot of flow through a 20G sump. Something smaller like an Eheim 1250 would work well.

i just found this out - now i have to live with it -

how bout a Supreme mag 7 - i run the mag 12 on the cpr 102 (dual overflow) - there might be something with better power consumption though

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Thanks for all the help. If the CPR is not reliable, what type of overfloww would you suggest. I would prefer a built in, but that is not going to happen since my tank is already stocked.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

what about a quiet one 3000??

 

[jer77]

I'd say lifereef overflows are good, or any with a u-tube. A quiet one 3000 will get you up to 522gph with 4' head loss excluding elbows and valves, so it should be good.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Look at OceanRunner or Eheim pumps, both are much better choices as far as efficiency, heat generation and overall quality.

 

[Kelpie]

< 50 Watts and 400 gph @ 4' head!

< 50 Watts and 400 gph @ 4' head!

Good price too!

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewI...product=HD10202

 

[AZDesertRat]

Link doesn't work.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I have narrowed it down to a quietone pump. I am just not sure if I should go with a 3000 or 4000. It will be between 4-5 feet of head with an 800 gph overflow and 20 gallon sump. PLease advise on which one would be the best choice.

 

[JOSEPHLB]

I'd go with the 3000.

That 4000 is really going to be pushing it.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Thanks for the help!

 

[ordy1]

Sorry if I'm stealing this thread but....

I was under the impression that the return pump should be matched to the size of the overflow(s). If you have one 1" overflow and it's been calculated that approximately 600 gph pass through that overflow then you should use a 600 gph pump. Is that right or did I read that wrong? I have two 1" bulkheads in my 46 and I'm using a Little Giant 4MD-SC pump, @ approx. 750 gph @ 4' head. Am I way oversized? What would be an Ideal pump?

Thanks and once again I apologize if I hijacked the thread.

Ordy

 

[fishgirl7]

cpr

cpr

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9565775#post9565775 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jer77
I'd say lifereef overflows are good, or any with a u-tube. A quiet one 3000 will get you up to 522gph with 4' head loss excluding elbows and valves, so it should be good.

i got the cpr cuz the u tube didnt give me enough flo for 1200 gph-i had enough flo for a mag 6 at 4ft head- are there multiple u tube overflows that i havent seem n?

 

[fishgirl7]

cpr

cpr

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9565775#post9565775 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jer77
I'd say lifereef overflows are good, or any with a u-tube. A quiet one 3000 will get you up to 522gph with 4' head loss excluding elbows and valves, so it should be good.

i got the cpr cuz the u tube didnt give me enough flo for 1200 gph-i had enough flo for a mag 6 at 4ft head- are there multiple u tube overflows that i havent seen ?

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9596788#post9596788 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ordy1
Sorry if I'm stealing this thread but....

I was under the impression that the return pump should be matched to the size of the overflow(s). If you have one 1" overflow and it's been calculated that approximately 600 gph pass through that overflow then you should use a 600 gph pump. Is that right or did I read that wrong? I have two 1" bulkheads in my 46 and I'm using a Little Giant 4MD-SC pump, @ approx. 750 gph @ 4' head. Am I way oversized? What would be an Ideal pump?

Thanks and once again I apologize if I hijacked the thread.

Ordy

An overflow rating is just a max rating. You dont need or want to max out the rating. In your case, based on a 46G, you should run ~ 150 - 250 GPH after headloss.

 

[sjm817]

Re: cpr

Re: cpr

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9596942#post9596942 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishgirl7
i got the cpr cuz the u tube didnt give me enough flo for 1200 gph-i had enough flo for a mag 6 at 4ft head- are there multiple u tube overflows that i havent seen ?

Yes, there are several of them. Lifereef has a very nice dual U Tube overflow.

 

[forsaken541]

I have this exact setup and here is what I use and have NEVER had an overflow problem. first and foremost do not use the aqualifter pump that comes with these owerflows. A Maxi-Jet 1200 placed right next to the overflow with an airline tubing running from the overflow box to the air intake port on the PH will keep your overflow box working perfectly and at full capacity, just make sure to clean the input screen to keep it clog free. I use a Mag 7 pump from my sump to the tank that runs up over the side of the tank. make sure to frill a hole in the return line just below the water line so that you have a siphon break if the power goes off. This setup has worked without fail for three and a half years now.
Erik