Revised and updated selling rules

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billsreef

Moderator, 10 & Over Club
Premium Member
After quite some deliberation, we've revised the selling rules for RC and will allow hobbyist bred fish to be sold in the selling forums. Keep in mind, the commercial restrictions still apply. I highlighted the part that interest all the fish breeders, but it is still good to read the entire thing ;)

Coral and Livestock selling forum rules:

Reef Central wants to encourage the trading and selling of items among hobbyist. Giving others the opportunity to receive used dry goods, unwanted and propagated livestock can be nothing less than a benefit to all involved.

These forums exist as a service for our members to trade or sell their reef related items. They are not intended in any form or fashion to be used as a commercial outlet. Please keep in mind that being seen as commercial does not necessarily require you having a brick and mortar or online store. Selling with the foremost thought of making money, having a large inventory, a constant supply of an item, buying and reselling, growing out coral with the intention of selling and other factors will at a minimum make you appear commercial according to our guidelines. Recognizing that it is impossible to construct a definition which will satisfy every situation or circumstance, Reef Central reserves the right to determine whether or not a post violates the commercial policy or definition. Violation of this policy will be grounds for removal from our community.


Sellers:

Selling is reserved as a perk for members who contribute to the community by posting in the general forums. If you choose to use this forum as a means to offer items to the community you must be an active member in the general forums as well. If your only intention is to gain enough posts to access the forums your selling privileges may be removed.

"¢ Livestock only, equipment and dry goods need to be listed in the dry goods selling forum.

"¢ You are expected to place a FIRM asking price for EVERY item listed in your thread. Threads without a listed price, auctions, group buys, "first to PayPal", "gauging interest", "selling for a friend", and "best-offer" threads are not allowed.

"¢ Links to Ebay and other selling sites are not permitted.

"¢ Linking to offsite photo sharing websites is not permitted. If you choose to include photographs you must include the picture in the thread.

"¢ Items like green water and copepods are considered manufacturing for resale and not permitted for sale in any forum.

"¢ Items collected for resale are not permitted. This applies to any item that is being collected for the purpose of reselling (mangroves, snails, hermits)

"¢ All selling threads must come to an end. We do not permit never ending sales or waiting list. Please post as sold so the thread can be closed. Threads approaching 60 days in age will be closed automatically.





Threads started in this forum may include fish and coral no longer suited for the display, propagated coral, and tank bred fish. If you are a fish breeder or coral propagator your sales will be monitored for what we feel is commercial activity. If your selling practices cross into commercial from hobbyist you will be asked to cease all selling on Reef Central. This is handled on a per case basis and as a seller you will be contacted by a member of Reef Central staff regarding your account.


Buyers:

This is a buyer beware marketplace. As a buyer it is up to you to research the items to verify compatibility and the previous transactions of the seller. Reef Central will not assume any responsibility for or get involved with any disputes between a buyer and seller.

The selling threads are not to be used for feedback or identification. We have forums for those purposes please use them.

Posting to bump, comments on the condition of the display, condition of the livestock, live stock identification, to wish luck or to praise/critique the seller are not permitted and will be removed without notice.

If you are not posting to make a purchase please take it to private message or a forum appropriate for that activity.



Please keep in mind that these forums are a service RC provides. Following the above guidelines help make the forums more user-friendly, and certainly makes them easier to moderate.


Thank you,

RC Staff
 
This really isn't fair to anyone I'd ask RC to reconsider this drastic change.

I'm a hobbiest first but also a basement breeder with a small commercial website. It would cost me $6,000 annually for the privilege of selling my tank bred fish on RC. That is currently more than my gross sales for the entire year and I accept that I am banned from any form of solicitation on RC. I go out of my way to simply share information and help other breeders in their fledgling projects.

This is how this rule change will effect various parties:

1. Sponsors who pay $6,000 per year will now be in direct competition with basement breeders who do not incur the $6,000 cost of doing business.

2. Small commercial operations that can not afford the $6,000 per year will still be banned from selling.

3. Anyone else can solicit for free and undercut paying Sponsors.

My ultimate goal is to grow my business to the point where I can afford the $6,000 annual fee and proudly sponsor RC. But why would I spend $6,000 per year when you allow hobbiests to solict for free while banning startups?

Respectfully,

Jason
 
ClownfishSushi,

When I read Bill's change of rules yesterday I was excited. Oh boy, a way to connect to the hobbyist breeder!

I am in sympathy with your position. I think it is tough for people like you that 'straddle the fence' between hobby and commercial. Trying to build your business is a good thing. At this point you are not in a position to support RC like Neptune, Ecotech, etc.

FWIW, there needs to be some sort of accommodation for the commercial hobbyist. Maybe limit the number of fish sold per month/year? Perhaps another catagory of support that didn't cost $6000!

I don't have any answers. Just throwing out some ideas off the top of my head.

-------------
John
 
ClownfishSushi,

When I read Bill's change of rules yesterday I was excited. Oh boy, a way to connect to the hobbyist breeder!

I am in sympathy with your position. I think it is tough for people like you that 'straddle the fence' between hobby and commercial. Trying to build your business is a good thing. At this point you are not in a position to support RC like Neptune, Ecotech, etc.

FWIW, there needs to be some sort of accommodation for the commercial hobbyist. Maybe limit the number of fish sold per month/year? Perhaps another catagory of support that didn't cost $6000!

I don't have any answers. Just throwing out some ideas off the top of my head.

-------------
John


Well I appreciate the empathy and would love to find a solution.

I'm a Sponsor on 3 other local websites currently. They run about $100 per year. 60 times less than RC. I've sold on average $1000 per site so I think it's been a good investment.

I know with 100% certainty that if I attempted to solicit one of my tank bred fish under the new rules I would be promptly informed that I have a website and therefore a commercial business.

Obviously I don't have the sales to warrant Sponsorship. But I can tell you this...

If I was a Sponsor right now I'd be livid. But that's from the viewpoint of an aquaculturist. I suppose a majority of the Sponsors here sell dry goods and equipment.

I honestly believe that what I do is an important aspect of this hobby and it'd be nice if there was a way that I could support RC while it supported my efforts in return.
 
Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever come up with a solution that will keep everyone happy. These issues we've been debating for years without being able to come up with the "perfect" solution. Bottom line, we try to come up with will work out for the overall masses...and being a board for hobbyist that is the direction such decisions go. Quite frankly from a personal viewpoint, things were simpler when we didn't allow any selling of any sort. It's a subject that causes us our most headaches, takes up a disproportional amount of time, and it has absolutely nothing to do with our mission:

Reef Central is an online community where quality information about the marine and reef aquarium hobby can be exchanged among all levels of hobbyist from beginner to advanced. Our goal is to help educate people about the saltwater aquarium hobby and enhance awareness of the fragility of coral reefs around the world. We hope you will join us and that you find this site useful.
 
I applaud ClownFishSushi and the other breeders and propators that put all the information that they do on these forums. Breeding and propagation is a HUGE part of this hobby. There has to be some way that RC helps the people that put in a good amount of effort for the RC community to learn and be successfull. To be Honest i can not even see the buy/sell forums yet and it is the threads that they post that keep me coming here and learning.
 
No need.

No need.

I think Reef Central should be an information only site and other than the local club threads, I would remove all selling/buying period. Keeps it honest and less headaches for Mods, Admins and staff. JMO
 
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