RO/DI decision time

[Fishbulb2]

sounds like the unit is turning off, which would indicate the ASOV. I would still recommend testing the waste to good ratio while the unit is running and before purchasing any. Just remove the waste line from the drain and insert it into a measuring device. Then close off the ball valve on the storage tank and open the faucet. Now water should be flowing from both the waste line and the faucet. Measure this ratio. Make sure the storage tank is closed off.

FB

 

[AZDesertRat]

If it was purchased as a drinking water unit with a pressure tank and faucet, it has a autoshutoff valve. Its the square looking thing on top with four 1/4" tubes leading in and out of it. Its not uncommon for them to go bad as well as the check valve.
Something else you need to check is the pressure in your pressure or bladder tank. If it has lost its air charge it may not produce the needed backpressure to trigger the autoshutoff valve.
Drain the pressure tank by shutting off the RO unit from the source then opening up the fauset until the tank is dry. Using a tire gauge check the pressure from the schrader valve on the top or side of the tank. It should look like a regular car or bicycle tire fill under a plastic cap which unscrews. Pressure should be 5 to 8 psi for it to work properly. A bicycle pump works great for adding air if needed. Check to see if the system shuts off now when the tank is full.

 

[johnlvs2run]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12473983#post12473983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishbulb2
remove the waste line from the drain and insert it into a measuring device. Then close off the ball valve on the storage tank and open the faucet. Now water should be flowing from both the waste line and the faucet. Measure this ratio. Make sure the storage tank is closed off

1) tank off
spigot on 2:00 ~ 16 oz.
drain line 2:00 ~ 32 oz.

2) tank on
spigot off
drain line 2:00 ~ 32 oz. (same as above) = 180 gallons a day

3) tank off
spigot off
drain line 2:00 ~ 28 oz.

4) tank off
spigot off
tank line 2:00 ~ 15 oz.

5) tank on
spigot on 1:00 ~ 1 gallon
drain line 1:00 ~ 17 oz.

 

[johnlvs2run]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12474601#post12474601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
If it was purchased as a drinking water unit with a pressure tank and faucet, it has a autoshutoff valve. Its the square looking thing on top with four 1/4" tubes leading in and out of it. Its not uncommon for them to go bad as well as the check valve.

There's a square shaped thing, with 2 lines going in and 2 out.

The pressure in the bladder tank appears to be good, as per the 1 gallon coming out in one minute.

Update: With the tank full, the pressure is 36 pounds.
Should I still check with the tank being empty? The lowest reading on the gauge is 5 psi.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Yes, you need the tank to be empty of any water pressure and disconnected or vented to atmosphere to read accurately.
You are reading the pressure from the schrader valve with a tire gauge and not from a pressure gauge on the water side of the unit correct?

 

[johnlvs2run]

The valve is at the bottom back side of the tank.

The tire gauge showed less than 5 psi with the tank being empty. I pumped it up to 15 pounds (noticed it helps to have the faucet closed), and then back down to 10. Is that too high of a reading?

What should the reading be when the tank is full? The sticker says don't exceed 100 psi, but it was only 36 psi with it full. What psi triggers the ASOV?

 

[five.five-six]

woops

 

[AZDesertRat]

It will be basically the same as the pressure reading on the RO membrane when its full. You are airing up a rubber bladder and compressing it with the water. Since water does not compress its the air in the bladder that delivers water pressure faucet. 10 psi might be a little high as it will limit the amount of water that can displace the air, probably limit a 3.3 gallon pressure tank to 2.75 gallons available. I try to stay around 6-8 psi.

 

[johnlvs2run]

It's a 4.4 gallon tank.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12474601#post12474601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
Something else you need to check is the pressure in your pressure or bladder tank. If it has lost its air charge it may not produce the needed backpressure to trigger the autoshutoff valve.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12477041#post12477041 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
It will be basically the same as the pressure reading on the RO membrane when its full.

Okay then I'll fill it back up - not sure where to proceed at this point.

 

[AZDesertRat]

If you have 6-8 psi in the pressure tank then your problem is with the autoshutoff valve and/or check valve. A bad ASOV will let waste flows continue to run when the good flow stops.

 

[johnlvs2run]

Thanks much for your helpfulness.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12475959#post12475959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by johnlvs2run
2) tank on
spigot off
drain line 2:00 ~ 32 oz. (same as above) = 180 gallons a day

The pressure in the empty tank is now 7-8 psi, and 40 psi when it's full.
I ran the above test again and got 19 oz. this time (109 gallons a day).

Is there a way to fix the ASOV and check valve or is it better to replace them?

Should I get the parts from AquaSafe, or are there other sources that would work just as well?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12475959#post12475959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by johnlvs2run
1) tank off
spigot on 2:00 ~ 16 oz.
drain line 2:00 ~ 32 oz.

Should the above ratio be 4:1?

There are a couple of things that I'm curious about. The wall valve is two way, one of them being 1/4 inch to the RO unit instead of splicing in to the other. Could that make the inflow too strong? And the flow restrictor has a black lever that goes perpendicular to the flow.

Update: "The valve automatically shuts off production when the tank pressure reaches approximately 65% of the incoming line pressure." I wonder if the incoming flow is too strong, and overriding the ASO and check valves.

 

[Robgixxer]

I went with purely h20. they deliver a great product at a great price. i got an ro/di system with tds meter, and auto top off included for 210. shipped

<a href="http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll260/Robgixxer/?action=view&current=150GallonAquarium001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll260/Robgixxer/150GallonAquarium001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[Squidhead9]

Is there a way to reverse the pressure to clean them out, or get better life from them.

 

[AZDesertRat]

The incoming flow or pressure is not too strong. RO membranes are designed to handle 200+ psi no problem.
The waste ratio should be 4:1, 4 cups of waste for every 1 cup of good. I use a measuring cup or other graduated device and a watch to time the flows myself, its easier to calculate that way. Time the good flow for 1 minute then time the waste flow for 1 minute. Should be 4:1 waste to good. If its not which it appears you are getting more like 2:1 then you need a different flow restrictor. The flows should both shut off when the pressure tank is full, good and waste, if not then you also need an autoshutof valve.
I am not a fan of supposed flush valves like you have with the black handle. There is no proof from any source that shows they do anything at all for the membrane, the 4:1 waste ratio is what keeps the membrane clean and all that is needed.

No there is no way to reverse the flow and flush the membrane. keep your waste ratio at 4:1 and use high quality prefilters and carbons and your membrane should last 5+ years easily, I have seen them go 9 years plus with good filters and proper maintenance.

 

[johnlvs2run]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12475959#post12475959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by johnlvs2run
2) tank on
spigot off
drain line 2:00 ~ 32 oz. (same as above) = 180 gallons a day

I turned the wall value to 1/2 flow, did this test again and got ~ 29 oz. (165 g/day).
As you noted, it appears the inflow from the wall valve is not making any difference.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12480924#post12480924 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
The waste ratio should be 4:1, 4 cups of waste for every 1 cup of good.

If its not which it appears you are getting more like 2:1 then you need a different flow restrictor.

Is it the flow restrictor that determines the waste:good ratio?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12480924#post12480924 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
The flows should both shut off when the pressure tank is full, good and waste, if not then you also need an autoshutof valve.
I am not a fan of supposed flush valves like you have with the black handle.

So I definitely need an ASO valve then? Okay. I hope it's connected the right way.

Is the black handle valve, the supposed flush valve i.e. flow restrictor? What type would be good to replace it with?

Is there a way to "check" the check valve, or should I just replace it anyway. What does the check value do? Thanks.

As an aside, the unit is 3 years old, not 5. It was getting 11-14 tds at the start, 15-19 after 1 1/2 years, and now getting 9.
Strange that it's getting lower with time. I do have a 5 micron filter where water comes into the house.

 

[AZDesertRat]

The flow restrictor determines the waste ratio, thats why it needs to be matched to the membrane size or be an adjustable one. I prefer the capillary tube since it is trimmed by you for an exact fit. Thye come with simple directions and all you need is a pair of scissors or knife to trim it. You would eliminate your existing one with the flush valve.
A simple test on the check valve is remove it from the line, turn it around and install it backwards. If the waste flow stops it is holding. be sure to put it back the right direction.
You have doubts if the ASOV is installed correctly? Have you replumbed anything or disassembled the unit recently for replacements or cleaning? If you are not sure, take a look at the hook up diagrams at www.spectrapure.com for the correct plumbing arrangement. It shows which lines go where.

 

[johnlvs2run]

A.J. thanks for all the great information.

I've not replumbed anything on the unit - will shop around then for the valves.

p.s. The check valve looks like it only goes in one way.

 

[johnlvs2run]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12481817#post12481817 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by johnlvs2run
It was getting 11-14 tds at the start, 15-19 after 1 1/2 years, and now getting 9.
Strange that it's getting lower with time. I do have a 5 micron filter where water comes into the house.

On reflection, I think the variations were due to fluctuations of such particles in the water.

I talked to Scott at Spectrapure today and have ordered the following:

ASO valve
1 lb in-line check valve
capillary flow restrictor
0.5 micron sediment filter
0.5 micron carbon block filter

I was going to order 2 carbon blocks but Scott said that 1 is plenty, and that the 0.5 micron sediment filter lasts 3 times as long due to it's construction as does the 1 micron size. I'll use one of the old carbon filters in between. The capillary flow restrictor can be used with or without the ball type, as the lever allows some adjustment.

Thanks again. The total (61.48) came out to $5 less than I'd planned.

I'll post back with results when everything is connected.

 

[johnlvs2run]

The administrator has specified that you can only edit messages for 60 minutes after you have posted.

In addition to the items, there is a charge of $10.28 for shipping, as noted on the web site, which brings the total to $71.76.

They sent a confirmation a few minutes ago and charged me $14.32 for shipping, with a total of $75.80.

As that is a different amount, I have contacted them for correction.

 

[five.five-six]

OK, I give up. i think that my city water is so bad that there is nothing I can do. incoming TDS is 710 ppm, my ro unit gets it down to 27-14

by my calculations that is 96-98 rejection rate so i don't think spending the $$ on a spectra-pure membrane is going to be all that much help

I just got a 2nd DI chamber. i am going to use my old DI to "prefilter" the fresh resin

I also got another duel in-line TDS meter so i can monitor the water going in and out the final DI stage


hopefully I can get more mileage out of my resin this way. I just bought a gallon of mixed bed non indicating resin...$72.00 :eek1: looks like i will get 4-5 cartridges filled with that