Ro / Di
- Thread starter fareforce
- Start date
kraze3
New member
IMO id go to www.airwaterice.com and get a typhoon III. There are also other good units there, typhoon III is just one of the best. Others will tell you the ebay ones are fine its just my opinion, many others do have the units off ebay and they all say they are fine. If you do order from ebay Ive heard you should ask for a 75gpd membrane instead of 100 gpd, it gets more of the bad stuff out and it shouldnt cost anything extra
jdieck
New member
I second airwaterice, the unit you link too has some key items that wither are low performance or not required for a reef.
a) I would select a unit with 1 micron sediment filter rather than 5
b) A unit with carbon block filtration in the inlet is better than activated carbon which it seems what this units has as one of the two carbon filtrations at the inlet.
c) I would select a membrane with 75 gpd capacity, the 100 gpd capacity has a lower rejection rate which shortens the life od the DI filter to at least 1/3 of what it could be
d) For a reef you do not need the post-filtration activated carbon, that is just to improve the taste for drinking
e) The DI cartridge is too small
f) You want transparent housings for the cartridges specially for the sediment filter in addition to the DI filter, you want to be able to asses if the cartridge accumualtes dirt and to replace it. visual inspection is more necessary when you do not have a gauge that can tell you when the cartrisge is getting plugged.
Also check your tap water pressure and CO2 content. If the pressure is below 45 psi the capacity of the unit will be reduced potentially to 50% or less and you may need a booster pump. If the CO2 content is too high your DI cartridge will last a very short ime and you may need to add an ANion resin cartridge before the mixed bed cartridge.
By the way DI cartridges are not usually used for drinking water because it gives some metallic after taste to the water and in this unit it seems to be connected to the after filter which is the line for drinking.
If this unit is supposed to be used for drinking water I would look for a unit with even better sediment and carbon filtration using 0.5 micron which will improve the removal of potential parasit eggs like gardia lamdia.
Hope this info helps.
a) I would select a unit with 1 micron sediment filter rather than 5
b) A unit with carbon block filtration in the inlet is better than activated carbon which it seems what this units has as one of the two carbon filtrations at the inlet.
c) I would select a membrane with 75 gpd capacity, the 100 gpd capacity has a lower rejection rate which shortens the life od the DI filter to at least 1/3 of what it could be
d) For a reef you do not need the post-filtration activated carbon, that is just to improve the taste for drinking
e) The DI cartridge is too small
f) You want transparent housings for the cartridges specially for the sediment filter in addition to the DI filter, you want to be able to asses if the cartridge accumualtes dirt and to replace it. visual inspection is more necessary when you do not have a gauge that can tell you when the cartrisge is getting plugged.
Also check your tap water pressure and CO2 content. If the pressure is below 45 psi the capacity of the unit will be reduced potentially to 50% or less and you may need a booster pump. If the CO2 content is too high your DI cartridge will last a very short ime and you may need to add an ANion resin cartridge before the mixed bed cartridge.
By the way DI cartridges are not usually used for drinking water because it gives some metallic after taste to the water and in this unit it seems to be connected to the after filter which is the line for drinking.
If this unit is supposed to be used for drinking water I would look for a unit with even better sediment and carbon filtration using 0.5 micron which will improve the removal of potential parasit eggs like gardia lamdia.
Hope this info helps.
crumbletop
New member
The Typhoon I from airwaterice costs only $20 more than that and has the great service, the good membrane, an extra filtration chamber, and a float valve for automating making the water. I'd go airwaterice.
Jack
Jack
jdieck
New member
Getting closer but not there yet, the filters in this unit are better than the ones on the first post as well as the transparent high pressure housings but the system is missing the Auto Shut Off Valve which you need if you want to use a float. Also I have never hear of "Autoflushing Membranes". which might be only a marketing gimick. FYI an Autoflush require automated solenoid valves and pressure switches that may cost $50.00 to $100.00 by themselves, because of this and because you still need manual flushing I doubt the reference to "Auto"
Notice that it also seem to be missing the means to tie the system to your tap water as well as the waste water to the drain.
As a funny note they also list as features items that make it an RO/DI system like capilary restrictor, That is a necessary and standard item in all systems. It also lists the support, without it you would be buying a bunch of loose cartridges and such.
Here is a pic of what I consider a full featured reef system, of course you do not need all the wisthles or utra performance filters but IMO the closer you get to it the better system you will be:
Here are the features:
a) 0.5 micron sediment filter
b) High capacity (20,000 gal) 0.5 micron carbon block filter
c) Dual membrane capacity 160 gpd reducing wasted water to 50%
d) Pressure booster pump for a constant inlet pressure of 70 psi at full production capacity
e) Strong Anion color indicating DI cartridge. Removes Silicates, Phosphates, Nitrates and CO2
f) Dual bed Ammonia removal DI cartridge (Needed if your tap is treated with chloramines)
g) Electronic grade dual bed DI cartridge removes any remining traces of impurities to 18 Megohm water Near absolute purity.
Other features:
- Pressure gauges at inlet, membrane housing and outlet
- Auto start and shut off system for pressure pump and system supply with staus indicator lamps.
- Auto top off low voltage electronic system with status indicator lamps.
- Auto purge system which automatically drains away initial water product after start up until purity is acceptable
- Auto back flush system to automatically clean the membrane after each shut down.
- Total dissolved meter at membrane inlet and outlet measuring the rejection ratio.
- High sensitivity purity monitor in the outlet (Set up at 0.03 ppm TDS)
- Dual surge tank at outlet for discharge pressure managment
Fareforce run, don't look back just run 
RobbyG
Active member
It already has a pressure guage! A dual TDS meter would be a nice option, you can measure the TDS after the RO and then after the DI. That way you will know when either of them are used up.
It's not a must have item since the Typhoon 3 comes with a handheld TDS meter, but it does save you from disconnecting hoses to test the RO membrane.
It's not a must have item since the Typhoon 3 comes with a handheld TDS meter, but it does save you from disconnecting hoses to test the RO membrane.
pjpeels
Premium Member
jdieck
jdieck
jdieck,
Could you please elaborate on your purification system? Where you purchased these items? Could one upgrade their, lets say, Typhoon III? I assume one could easily do that. What order would these extra DI and or RO Cartridges be installed? Does it Matter what order? I know that the RO goes before the DI, and the sediment and carbon before the RO. I am not exactly sure what type of DI Cartridge that the Typhoon has, but could we add additional DI canisters to the RO/DI output and take water from the output of the additional cartridge? Where did you pick up the RO membrane and DI membrane housings, and could we add one to our existing systems? Again, I am sure that it is not rocket science. Home Depot? Lowe's?
Anyone feel free to answer? I am sure many would be interested in the answers. Most everyone here is Good with this stuff so I don't see anyone having a real problem with understanding any kind of instructions for an upgrade.
This message is not as organized as I would like, but I think everyone gets the main points.
Thank you, hope I have kept the discussion going.
jdieck
jdieck,
Could you please elaborate on your purification system? Where you purchased these items? Could one upgrade their, lets say, Typhoon III? I assume one could easily do that. What order would these extra DI and or RO Cartridges be installed? Does it Matter what order? I know that the RO goes before the DI, and the sediment and carbon before the RO. I am not exactly sure what type of DI Cartridge that the Typhoon has, but could we add additional DI canisters to the RO/DI output and take water from the output of the additional cartridge? Where did you pick up the RO membrane and DI membrane housings, and could we add one to our existing systems? Again, I am sure that it is not rocket science. Home Depot? Lowe's?
Anyone feel free to answer? I am sure many would be interested in the answers. Most everyone here is Good with this stuff so I don't see anyone having a real problem with understanding any kind of instructions for an upgrade.
This message is not as organized as I would like, but I think everyone gets the main points.
Thank you, hope I have kept the discussion going.
jdieck
New member
Really a Typhoon is good enough for a reef but I am a technology nuts so I have to modify everything for full automation.
The cartridge sizes are all standard so if you buy the Typhoon you can always upgrade the cartridges once they are exhausted the only difference is that if you upgrade the carbon filter then you may not need the two that come from the Typhoon but you can use the left housing for an additional DI cartridge by just re-routing the connections.
The upgraded cartridges and some of the automation equipment you can get from www.spectrapure.com although airwaterice can also provide you with a second membrane kit add on and additional housings if you like.
Here are the benefits of the upgrades:
Sediment filter, the better micron rating (look for absolute rating rather than median) the longer the life of the membrane, passed particles eventually get deposited in the membrane pores.
Carbon filter. The better the grade and capacity the lower the cost per gallon of water produced and the less likelihood that chlorine may pass into the membrane, chlorine can totally damage a TFC membrane in just a couple of uses. This is why Typhoon uses two filters for carbon.
Membranes. All standard membranes up to 75 gallons are rated for 98% rejection and the 100 gal for 90% rejection. The difference is that at the higher rejection the DI cartridge lasts up to three times longer but your production capacity will be 75 nominal instead of 100 gpd.
The membranes I use have still an even higher rejection. All 75 gal TFC membranes from Filmtec are produced exactly the same but as per specifications there is a range of acceptable rejection. When a new lot comes in the vendor tests the membranes for rejection and sets aside the ones with rates of 99%+ to sell them as ultra at slightly higher price than the standard.
When using dual membranes, besides the obvious advantage of increased production is that the waste water per gallon of produced water is half of what it would be other wise. The waste from the first membrane is fed as inlet to the second membrane, this way you get basically twice the product with the same waste. There is an insignificant increase 0.5 to 1 TDS in the product out of the membranes but worth the water savings.
Strong Anion DI resin is specified for removing specifically Silicates and Phosphates but in my case specially in the winter there is a lot of CO2 dissolved in the tap water, the CO2 shortens the life of the DI cartridge a lot but a cheaper Anion cartridge helps extend the life of the most expensive high grade resin cartridges.
If your water is treated with chloramines the carbon breaks it down but this action releases Ammonia. The Ammonia is not removed by the membrane but by the DI filter. A DI filter with resins specified for Ammonia removal will last a bit longer.
The last electronic grade resin cartridge is normally specified to produce water of near absolute purity (In the range of Parts per Billion TDS) This water is mostly used in the manufacturing of electronic chips were any minor impurities can spoil hundreds of units. This is just my fancy, I had the housing and because the previous two DI cartridges, this one lasts really long so why not to have it if I can produce such a pure water.
The pump you only need if your tap water is low.
Now about automation, most of it is for comfort but there is one piece that I consider really beneficial, the auto purge at start up.
When a system is shut off impurities permeate to the product side of the membrane so every time you start the system there will be impurities passed with about the first gallon or so. If you have a top off and the system turns on and off often this will allow a lot of impurities in the product water. The purge system trows away the product water for five minutes before switching the output to the storage or the sump.
When the sump is back to level and the storage is full the pressure in the output starts to rise. a pressure switch detects this increase in pressure and opens a solenoid that by passes the flow restrictor in the waste increasing the flow of waste water, this waste carries away any sediment or carbonate accumulation on the inlet side of the membrane to prevent it from being plugged (You can do the same with a manual by pass valve). After two minutes the solenoid shuts off and at the same time the pump also turns off.
When the top of system detects low water level it opens a solenoid in the output of the unit and the pressure drops, this drop is detected and the pump turns on as well as the auto purge starting the cycle again.
Here is the order:
a) Tap faucet
b) Pressure Gauge
c) Sediment Filter
d) Carbon filter
e) Booster pump
f) controller valve (which signals and times purge, flush and a DIY electric relay to start and shut off the pump)
g) TDS meter
h) First membrane housing (inlet)
i) Housing pressure gauge
j) Waste output from first membrane to second membrane housing (inlet)
k) Waste outlet of second membrane to restrictor and solenoid flush bypass and from there to the drain
l) Product outlet of both membranes joint to a single line
m) TDS meter
n) check valve
o) Strong Anion cartridge
p) Ammonia removal DI cartridge
q) Purity Monitor
r) Mixed bed electronic grade resin DI cartridge
s) Dual output solenoid (to purge) that diverts the product water either to the drain or to the top off and storage.
t) Surge Tank
u) Pressure gauge
v) Output pressure switch
w) product line split one to top off solenoid valve and the other to the storage (which has a float valve)
Again you do not need all this, I just did it just for the sake of it not because the reef needs it.
If I want to have a good unit without all the fancies this is what I would get:
a) 1 micron sediment
b) One high capacity carbon block filter 1 micron or two normal capacity carbon filters
c) one 75 gpd membrane with pressure gauge
d) Two standard DI mixed bed DI cartridges. If chloramines, have the first for Ammonia removal. Preferably non color indicating but TDS shall be checked routinely to detect exhaustion of the resin.
e) Dual TDS meter
f) ASOV valve (Shuts off the feed water when top off or float closes but is actuated by differential pressure not electrically.
g) Manual back flush
h) manual valve to shut off output
h) Low voltage auto top off
i) float valve (In case top off fails to close)
Some extra tubing and a couple of extra John Guest "T"s and valves to tap in between cartridges for water testing will also become handy.
By the way, regarding TDS being zero, they never are with the kind of meters we normally use, it is usually 1 to 2 parts as the meters are not sensitive enough.
Do we need absolute 0 TDS for our reefs? absolutely no. We add more impurities with the salt and the food in a week than what we would add with an standard RO/DI unit in a year of water changes and top offs.
A couple of extra John Guest "T"s and valves to tap in between cartridges for water testing.
Sorry it was so long but tried to be as specific as I could.
