Rock from a miracle mud setup - PO4 issue

[finneganswake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6601762#post6601762 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
1. The only one who is attempting to brainwash is you.
The one who knows nothing about the process.

The pictures you posted were the BEFORE I "cooked" my rock photo's. That rock came from a reefers tank who had it running for 6 years I believe.

You forgot the AFTER pictures.

But it is like you to only present one side, the side you want seen, and not the whole.

Again, you've missed my point by a mile or two. I'm not saying that rock killing won't work as a bandaid, just that there is no evidence that it will work long-term, and plenty of evidence that it won't--how many of your disciples have had to kill their rocks a second or third time? That right there should be proof that it's a worthless solution. To say that I don't understand the process is pretty much what I expected--I don't agree with you, therefor I'm stupid. It's amazing that when people have these kind of results with, let's say... ich treatments, everyone agrees that it's a bad solution, but somehow we're supposed to suspend disbelief because, hey, you've got a lot of posts, so you must know what you're talking about.

How many tank of the month people have killed their rocks? None, because they don't need to as they understand husbandry is more important than gimmicks. When people have algae problems, you rush to tell them that they should lose their sandbed (it's funny how that didn't live up to the hype of the miracle system that will never have algae) and kill their rocks. I guess they could listen to someone who wasn't able to keep their tank from being infested with algae, or they could listen to someone who has had a tank with no problems for years. But that person wouldn't even think of telling you to kill your rocks, so I guess they don't understand voodoo either.

 

[SeanT]

Re: Re: Bla,Bla,Bla,Bla

Re: Re: Bla,Bla,Bla,Bla

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6601590#post6601590 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by finneganswake
Ah, I love democracy. Agree with me or shut up:lol:

Yeah, that is what you do isn't it.
Constantly posting and posting your drool until people get fed up with you.
Noone believes you, because the proof is there, the proof of the method speaks for itself, the proof of those who attest to it, the proof of the algae free tanks.
Then there is you, with nothing but a soapbox.
No facts, no studies, nothing...just a soapbox.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6601590#post6601590 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by finneganswake
Just don't ask for my help when your nitrates spike (they will in a bare bottom tank) and you have to cook your rocks bi-monthly to keep it from being overrun by algae.

Trust me, noone is coming to you for help.
So don't worry about that.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6601590#post6601590 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by finneganswake
On a serious note, did you switch to BB and kill your rocks because you were having problems or just because it's the cool thing to do on RC?

Once again you add lies to your statements.
Pathetic really.
Noone is killing their rocks, they are cleaning them.
You sure sound bitter.

 

[Boat Racer]

I'm not KILLING MY ROCK either.You realy need to do more reading on a subject before you run your mouth like you do!So where are all these cooked rock BB tanks that have to have the rock cooked every month that your babble about?I have read only two threads where people had a problem and without every detail of the proccess they cooked with and the parameters they kept their tank I couldd hardly say that its doomed like you wish to beleive.I do however know of plenty threads that have to do with crashed sandbeds and huge losses after these problems.

 

[finneganswake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6601804#post6601804 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boat Racer
You dont get nitrates from BB.What a retarded statement If you put clean cooked rock that doesnt shed in a bb tank with high flow and clean your prefilter regularly you wont get nitrates.I am cooking my rock because it was cured in my tank when I set it up and it still sheds as much every day as it did the day I started.I had a nitrate problem from my uncooked uncured rock that I put in my tank.Your realy ****ing me off with your all your anti babble.Get a life!.....Your way or no way rite? Whatever

Since you obviously don't understand the process of de-nitrification, could you explain to me how it occurs in a BB tank?

 

[SeanT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6601849#post6601849 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by finneganswake
Again, you've missed my point by a mile or two.

I'm not saying that rock killing won't work as a bandaid, just that there is no

you've got a lot of posts, so you must know what you're talking about.

How many tank of the month people have killed their rocks?

But that person wouldn't even think of telling you to kill your rocks,

You see, you have lowered yourself to an argumentative, juvenile attitude which should have ended with adolescents.
But it has not.
With all these "killing" statements it shows your ignorance and inability to discuss.

Ergo, our conversations have ended...and you recive an official title...Troll. :wavehand:

 

[finneganswake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6601855#post6601855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boat Racer
I do however know of plenty threads that have to do with crashed sandbeds and huge losses after these problems.

And they're all written by people who weren't willing to blame their crappy tanks on poor husbandry. It wasn't me, it was the sandbed! Oops, I'm still getting algae--it wasn't me, it was the rocks! But hey, it's easy to latch on to meaningless buzzwords like "rock cooking" and "shedding" when you have no idea how to blame yourself.

 

[Boat Racer]

Ok How did I get my three month old tanks rocks to shed from day one?What did I do to make that happen?I am simpley cleaning my rock to keep the shedding to a minimum.And Nitification works in a BB tank.You have a lot of LR that has bacteria on it.You then keep high flow to export the detritus to pre filter and sump where the skimmer pulls out what the pre filter didn t get.You are not allowing the detritus to have a chance to become toxic.Therefore you need less bio filtration(meaning NO SAND BED ).Again you should read more before you run your mouth

 

[finneganswake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6601881#post6601881 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
You see, you have lowered yourself to anargumentative, juvenile attitude which should have ended with adolescents.
But it has not.
With all these "killing" statements it shows your ignorance and inability to discuss.

Ergo, our conversations have ended...and you recive an official title...Troll. :wavehand:

Um, ignorance would be not knowing the difference between "adolescence" and "adolescents" and the proper use of said words. Pretty sloppy for someone who claims they are a PhD.

 

[Fernando Chang]

Dear Sirs , my tank is 150 glns with only fishes (blue tangs, flame angel, purple tang, damsel, firefish) and I am planing to replace
all the rocks with new and cured porous rocks (less heavy). Can I take only the rocks out and keep the fishes and the same salt water in the tank whilst I am introducing the new rocks ?? does this affect my fishes ? or I have to keep the fishes in a separate tank and for how long ?
of course I will introduce soft and hard corals later when the tank is working OK !! the reason why I am doing this change is because the actual rocks I have are no goods and too heavy. I obtained some porous rocks (less heavy) with better chapes.
trust somebody can help me !!
thanks in advance.

Regards
Fernando Chang
Panama

 

[Boat Racer]

No.You should remove the fish because the years of built up crud(detritus) that the sand and rocks hold in will cloud the tank over while removing the rocks.This is an unhappy thing for the fish.Very stressfull.

 

[finneganswake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6601949#post6601949 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boat Racer
Ok Sausage Washer,How did I get my three month old tanks rocks to shed from day one?What did I do to make that happen?I am simpley cleaning my rock to keep the shedding to a minimum.And Nitification works in a BB tank.You have a lot of LR that has bacteria on it.You then keep high flow to export the detritus to pre filter and sump where the skimmer pulls out what the pre filter didn t get.You are not allowing the detritus to have a chance to become toxic.Therefore you need less bio filtration(meaning NO SAND BED ).Again you should read more before you run your Sausage Washer

Ooh, homophobia! Wow, you must be pretty evolved to be able to spout that kind of stuff. Or pretty desperate--maybe that's the only way you can win a losing argument. Maybe you can really drive your point home if you start talking about my mother. Boy, she's fat :lol:

And I said DE-nitrification, not nitrification. There's a difference, which is why you can't get the nitrates out of a BB tank without massive water changes. Unless you have some kind of magical skimmer that manages to pull in multiple times of gallons per hour than your tank capacity. But maybe BB tanks exist in an alternate universe where the ammonia waits to be broken down until it reaches your skimmer hours later; that is, unless you purchased the optional ammonia magnet attachment. Makes sense to me, but you don't understand the difference between two basic facets of reefkeeping, so I don't expect you to get it.

Ta ta!

 

[SeanT]

Fernando Chang,
Like Boat Racer has said, you will disturb many things removing the rock which may become toxic to them.
I would take all the rock out except for the ones that are on the bottom, then remove the fish.

Also, remember that unless you COMPLETELY cure the new rock BEFORE it is introduced into your existing tank you will likely have another cycle.
That ammonia buildup may kill your fish as well.

hth,
Sean

 

[Fernando Chang]

thanks Boat Racer !! for how long I have to keep the fishes separate ?

Regards
Fernando Chang
Panama

 

[Fernando Chang]

thanks Sean T, I will take yr advice and shall keep the fishes separate until the cycle is completed. the new rocks will be completely cured and I will keep the sand and the water. I will probably make a partial change.

Regards
Fernando Chang
Panama

 

[Boat Racer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6602082#post6602082 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by finneganswake
Ooh, homophobia! Wow, you must be pretty evolved to be able to spout that kind of stuff. Or pretty desperate--maybe that's the only way you can win a losing argument. Maybe you can really drive your point home if you start talking about my mother. Boy, she's fat :lol:

And I said DE-nitrification, not nitrification. There's a difference, which is why you can't get the nitrates out of a BB tank without massive water changes. Unless you have some kind of magical skimmer that manages to pull in multiple times of gallons per hour than your tank capacity. But maybe BB tanks exist in an alternate universe where the ammonia waits to be broken down until it reaches your skimmer hours later; that is, unless you purchased the optional ammonia magnet attachment. Makes sense to me, but you don't understand the difference between two basic facets of reefkeeping, so I don't expect you to get it.

Ta ta!

Ok heres the deal.You are right I thought you said nitrification.My vision was blurred due to the nonsence you keep ranting over.I also deleted the name calling part from my posts because in hindsight it only brings me down to a level that I am not comfortable with.I dont want to be banned from such an awsome site because of you and your unwillingness to see other alternatives in reef keeping that I felt the need to argue about.I am sorry for calling you names and I will ask that you delete that quote or at least the name caling part of it.If youd ont then I guess my judgment about you was right on the money.Have a nice day.I am finished with this subject.

 

[SeanT]

How long has this tank been running?

 

[Boat Racer]

Fernando Chang

Fernando Chang

I would keep the fish seperate untill the water is clear or the tank is cycled.

 

[Fernando Chang]

Sean T and Boat Racer !
the tank is running for almost 2 years with soft corals. however for some nasty reasons all died abt 6 months ago. I was attending a training course for 2 months in Mexico. Now I have fishes only. I am trying the rebuild my reef tank with new rocks.
my fishes are in good health with brilliant colors no problem at all. I am purchasing a new skimmer EV240 fm Aqua C.
Boat Racer , I can introduce the fishes once the water is clear. however by keeping the same water and the sand there will be no cycle ? if Yes how long the cycle will take.
thanks again yr great info that is not available in Panama.

Regards
Fernando Chang

 

[Boat Racer]

Well here is what I would do.Its a little more work but trust me it will be well worth it.
1.Place the fish in a container or seperate tank(rubbermade tub) with new salt water,heater,and powerhead or air stone after you get most of the rocks out of the tank.
2.Remove the rest of the rocks
3.Let the tank water settle for a few hours and drain and keep half of that water in a new container(plastic garbage can) with an airstone.
4.Remove all the sand with a dust pan into buckets.Get a heavy duty screen and staple it to a 2'x4' rectangle made of 2x4's about 12" of the ground and clean your sand over that with fresh water.
5.Clean empty tank with fresh water real well.
6.Mix new saltwater in half of the tank and then add back the water you kept from the old set upand add back the cleaned sand and maybe a few bags of aragalive sand on top of that.
You are basicly cleaning the detritus out of the old sand and doing a 50% water change.
7.Heat water,run powerheads,run filter and all equipment as usual.
8.Keep an eye on the parameters for about a week to make sure there is no spike from Amonia.
9.Then place fish back into the tank and watch parameters.
10.When the rock is cured place it in the tank gently as not to crush or scare the fish too much.

It also may be a good idea to add back a few peices of the old rock you had because it holds the bacteria you need for bio filtration.You may need to place a few of those rocks in the holding tank that the fish are in to keep it fresh.

This has worked for me in the past and should get your system freshend up for a new begining. Some people may diss agree with this but listen to their veiws as well and make the best descision you can based on all the input together.Good luck

 

[Fernando Chang]

Boat Racer , thanks very much yr advice and confirm I will proceed accordingly. the only concern to me is the new rocks. these rocks will be completely cured with nothing on it. can I introduce these rocks once I clean the tank, sand and have the water back again (well 50% old water and the 50% new water).
thanks again yr great help.

Regards
Fernando Chang