Rtn

[airinhere]

I see where your going there, but I just imagine people putting MJ1200s into cereal bowls full of saltwater and Lugols. About three seconds of really funny and then someone ****ed cleaning up their countertop.

Maybe we should emphasize swishing the bowl, (or I usually just hold onto the coral and swirl it around in the bowl a few times).

Echidna, you might also fill a second bowl with clean RO/DI water and do a very short (30 second) freshwater dip. Some of those brown jelly bacterias TMZ is talking about are very sensitive to freshwater dips also.

 

[mikekman]

Echidna, hope everything gets better for you. It sucks coming back and seeing nice stuff die out.

Try and do a nice, large waterchange, that might help some things.

PS, probably not the right time to ask, but take some pics of the cesp and post it in that blue xenia thread when you get the chance.

 

[tmz]

airinhere, Yes fw dip is recommended for brown jelly but some corals are much less tolerant of this mehod than the iodide dip. By the way it is my understanding that the brown jelly is a protozoan which is a much larger organism than a bacteria and therefore harder to kill.
I'm still concerned about the chemistry of the tank. The way this has spread and the high alkalinity reading 5.5meql lead me to believe chemistry not infection is the main problem . Dips can't hurt . but maybe a large water change with a different salt might be more effective in this case

 

[Echidna09]

I did the iodine dip today with my lobo and acan. I'll let you know tomorrow if it seemed to have worked or if the recession continues. I really hope the acan can come back, it was one of the brightest I've seen. I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but it's weird to me that only LPS is dying. Are they more sensitive to a certain component in the water than SPS? My SPS is thriving when it used to be the one that would brown out and die.

Mike - Sorry I was going to get the pics tonight, but I only have a little over hour after I get off work before the lights go off, and I was dipping and taking care of the other corals, then cleaning up my tank for my octopus I'm getting on Friday. I'll try to get one tomorrow.

 

[airinhere]

I agree about doing the water change. And it does seem likely you have a bad bucket of salt.
I personally stay away from the Oceanic salt. Get the good stuff: Reef Crystals or Red Sea Coral Pro (What I use). Seems like since I started using it, I have had few issues with water quality. Just dose with Randys 2 part and am doing the Mag Sulfate treatment for some Bryopsis in one tank. (Seems to be working, stuff is turning brown.)

I think the Brown Jelly is bacteria. It starts off feeding on dying flesh and then grows to where it can consume a whole colony. I think if it were protozoans, they would have to have been imported into the tank somehow. The bacteria are just opportunistic and not specifically targeting the corals, just taking advantage of the available food source.

Enchida, watch your corals and if they start receeding again after a week or so, do a quick freshwater dip (30 seconds or so). I have experienced a type of this brown jelly on some of my Hillae acans that grows under the corals skin right on its skeleton. Starts eating holes in the acans in random spots. Lugols dip doesn't seem to fix this, but freshwater dips do. My Hillaes looked very thin skinned when they were affected by this brown jelly, and now (2 weeks later) they look much puffier.

The SPS are just as vulnerable to this sort of thing as your LPS, just they are likely still in good health (eating well=healthy slimecoat). Your LPS could have still been stressed from traveling into your tank and whatever your newest coral was, could have spread the brown jelly to the other LPS in your tank. (Or could be the source of the protozoans if TMZ is right)

3 months is the minimum time in your tank undisturbed that I would say any corals were acclimated properly to your tank.

SPS also tend to like higher dKH and Ca readings than anything else.

 

[Echidna09]

Right now it looks like the iodine dip didn't work. There was some dead tissue I had to blow off on both corals, but the Lobo had a bunch of it. Oddly, dendros are opening more than they ever have when the lights are on.

 

[tmz]

A couple of cites for clarification. RE; brown jelly or protozoan infections see Borneman,"Aquarium Corals",pge 381.Damaged tissue from trauma or chemsistry can lead to an infection typically bacterial, the opportunistic protozoans(brown jelly) eat the tissue and contribute to further necrosis and can spread rapidly.
Fresh water dips,see Borneman pg389. 1to 3 minutes should be effective against brown jelly.Personally I have done both the iodide dip and the fw dip . I am more apprehensive about the fw dip paricularly with sps but I have used it with zoanthus,blastomossa and a few others without ill effect. I have not tried it on a euphylia . I think the iodide dip is less harmful to the coral and can have good effect against pathogens,since it is routinely used by many as a preplacement prophylactic treatment.If recision continues or if a judgement is made to pursue more agressive treatment the fw dip can be used as well as the iodide dip.
Lugols dips,see Borneman pg. 389-5to 10 drops per quart of circulating sea water for 10to20minutes. Length of the dip and concentration can be altered depending on the tolerance of the coral.
I have never used Oceanic salt but I have heard of others who have experienced difficulty with lps and some with sps while using this product. Could be coincidence. I have used corlaife salt for years without a problem .
I know you must be very frustrated and somewhat sad at this point but if you are persistent it will get better although you may very well loose more specimens before it's over.
Good Luck,
Tom

 

[airinhere]

wow, I was going way short on the dips. Thanks for the clarification.

Enchida, do you have a QT? if so, I would make sure the affected corals are in it at this point. Brown jelly can spread and its easier to keep your sick corals together and just treat them all at once than to risk losing your display tank.

Tmz, I am thinking maybe enchida could try dosing erythromyacin into a QT tank with his sick corals. Do you think this would be a good idea?
At this point, I am trying to think 'outside the box'.
Maybe a half recommended dose for fish illnesses. (I know it works great against cyano).
Freshwater dips or maintaining high levels of iodine in the QT might get rid of the protozoans, and the erythromyacin could work to kill any bacteria eating the flesh of the coral.

 

[tmz]

I don't know alot about antibiotics and have never tried them.Lugols or another iodide dip should get the syrface bacteria but I don't know how to get at embbeded stuff. A uv sterlizer wouldn't hurt either but that would only kill bacteria in the waTER.

 

[Echidna09]

It looks like the acan might actually make it. The 2 polyps on it are visible and looking pretty good. The lobo will probably die. I tried another ricordia and it seems like it might be starting to die too.

Also, I think I have black bugs on my SPS :'(. Do these affect LPS too?

 

[tmz]

I've heard of red bugs on acros,there are a number of good threads on the sps forum. Don't really know what you have in there. Are they fllatworms? More crustacean like? Nudibrancs? Could they be harmless copepods or amphipods,I hope?

 

[Echidna09]

No, they are little black spots on my Poccillipora, that has been slowly receding since I bought it. Also to answer the question from before; I don't have a QT. I did kill a few pods when I dipped in iodine.

 

[tmz]

Sorry don"t know about the black spots. you may find something on the sps forum. By the way i didn't ask about a qt. The pocillapora might benefit from a lugols dip. I wouldn't try a fw dip on it since it's an sps and many of them don't tolerate it.

 

[airinhere]

Sorry man, I am still just getting into the SPS. My tanks are all less than a year old so I dont see any reason to start loading them into it when the odds say they wouldnt do well. I might tag along to find out the deal with the black spots though. Never heard of that myself.

From what I have read, many of the bugs found on SPS are carnivorous but their primay diet isnt corals. Even redbugs are reported to prefer other food. monitor the dots and see if they move or have little worms poke out of them at night. Worms would be bad from what I have read.

Again, a QT would be a good idea for this sort of situation.

 

[Echidna09]

Thank you. I bought a 50 gallon bag of instant ocean and I am going to do a 25% water change tomorrow. I think I will lose the lobo and possibly the leptastrea but the acans should live. I bought more rics and despite my first thought of the little one recessing they seem to be doing good. Thanks for all your help guys.

 

[epicfish]

Any updates on this?