?'s with QT, Ammonia and Cuparamine

[sfboarders]

I set up (2) QT tanks a 30 gallon and 20 gallon. The 30 gallon has a heniochus and the 20 gallon has a pair of false percs. I added a sponge filter from my sump that has been there for 3+ months to the 30 gallon and the 20 gallon has a sponge filter that has been in there for 2 weeks. I tested for ammonia and it's at .25PPM already. Not sure why but I'm sure those filters are seeded pretty good. The HOB filters have carbon in them but I removed the carbon because I read it absorbs the cupramine. What's the best plan of attack to attack to keep the ammonia low? Will 5 gallon WC's be ok or should I do more? Also when should I add the cupramine? Should I let the fish get use to there new homes first and then add it? Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[suta4242]

Large water changes should reduce the ammonia levels to zero.

In the past when I've lost biological filtration I'd have large barrels of NSW ready to go already dosed & mixed with cupramine, before treatment started. The advantage is that its less stressful to the fish (and better for treatment reasons) to maintain a therapeutic dose in the water.

You probably already know this, but its essential that you remove all the carbon from the filter and that you treat in a BB environment without sand or LR. Also have a look at the manufacturer's FAQ about cupramine and use of water conditioners etc...

good luck!

 

[sfboarders]

Thanks sutra for your response. After doing some reading and more research I think I'm gonna do hyposalinity instead. I figure with each water change I can do I can slowly raise the salinity to 1.008. I've also decided to put the clowns in the 30 gallon with the heniochus. That way it limits me to only work on one tank. In the 20 gallon they were hiding out in the pvc but now they are moving around and playing with heni. So here are my new questions.

- Can I use carbon filter on my HOB?
- I read that pH will lower can I raise pH back with an airstone or Kent Pro Buffer dKH?
- Can I use Amquel + to keep the ammonia at suitable levels for the fish?

 

[suta4242]

This link covers hypo pretty comprehensively:

www.atj.net.au/marineaquaria/hyposalinity.html

good luck!

 

[krowleey]

Thanks sutra for your response. After doing some reading and more research I think I'm gonna do hyposalinity instead. I figure with each water change I can do I can slowly raise the salinity to 1.008. I've also decided to put the clowns in the 30 gallon with the heniochus. That way it limits me to only work on one tank. In the 20 gallon they were hiding out in the pvc but now they are moving around and playing with heni. So here are my new questions.

- Can I use carbon filter on my HOB?
- I read that pH will lower can I raise pH back with an airstone or Kent Pro Buffer dKH?
- Can I use Amquel + to keep the ammonia at suitable levels for the fish?

you can use carbon on your HOB
i wouldnt use the buffer, i would use arm and hammer pure baking soda. place it on a cookie sheet and bake it at 350 for 10 min to get a more potent buffer.
you can use amquel, or prime, but do water changes along with its use.

 

[sfboarders]

you can use carbon on your HOB
i wouldnt use the buffer, i would use arm and hammer pure baking soda. place it on a cookie sheet and bake it at 350 for 10 min to get a more potent buffer.
you can use amquel, or prime, but do water changes along with its use.

Thanks krowlee for the response! So I have my other 20 gallon sitting now with a "seeded" filter in it. Does this seeded filter have any ich or other parasites on it? The reason I ask is because is it possible for me to purchase another fish and have it in QT? I'll probably add it to my DT when the other 3 fish are cured.

 

[evsalty]

If you have ich in your main tank then you will need to leave it fallow (fishless) for 6-8 weeks to allow the ich to finish it's life cycle.

 

[krowleey]

Thanks krowlee for the response! So I have my other 20 gallon sitting now with a "seeded" filter in it. Does this seeded filter have any ich or other parasites on it? The reason I ask is because is it possible for me to purchase another fish and have it in QT? I'll probably add it to my DT when the other 3 fish are cured.

you can add another fish to your QT, but it will start your timer over, and more fish can mean more water changes due to bioload. I would wait it out if you only have a single QT and get new fish after your others are back in the display.

 

[sfboarders]

you can add another fish to your QT, but it will start your timer over, and more fish can mean more water changes due to bioload. I would wait it out if you only have a single QT and get new fish after your others are back in the display.

The 3 fish are in the 30 galln HT right now. I have a 20 gallon QT that is empty where I can put a new fish for observing if he's alright. The 20 gallon QT has a seeded filter. Is if possible that the seeded filter can Cary a parasite and infect the new fish?

My 100 gallon DT will remain fishless for at least 8 weeks to kill off the ich parasite.

 

[suta4242]

If the filter came from water contaminated with the parasite, yes.

I may have misunderstood your first post, but didn't you have an ammonia reading? Its just that this would indiccate theres insufficient nitrifying bacteria for the job, so I wouldn't add more fish. JMO.

good luck!

 

[sfboarders]

If the filter came from water contaminated with the parasite, yes.

I may have misunderstood your first post, but didn't you have an ammonia reading? Its just that this would indiccate theres insufficient nitrifying bacteria for the job, so I wouldn't add more fish. JMO.

good luck!

I'll just empty the 20 gallon and put a new batch of water and new filter in there and start a new cycle with raw shrimp. Is it ok to run it with the filter media in the filter pad on the HOB or should I remove that during cycling?

 

[wooden_reefer]

Not sure why but I'm sure those filters are seeded pretty good.

I know why. When you are just "seeding" a filter medium in the DT, it is just that, "seeding".

You need to have done more than "seeding". you have to allow the seed to grow to very dense population of nitrification bacteria. It is obvious if you would only think about it. Why would a lot of bacteria be established in a filter in DT when you have very low near zero ammonia? This is just commonsense, isn't it?

Nitrification bacteria will not grow fast and numerous enough if you only place it in a filter in DT; you will need to deliberately cycle the medium after it has been seeded.

Before you have your fish, you should have seeded and then cycled very well the medium intended for QT. You should have done so by adding an ammonia source and cycle in a separate container, or in the QT if you do not yet have any fish to be treated.

Now, you have to do a lot of extra work and QT is far less likely effective. Most people cannot adhere to water change for eight weeks.

0.25 ppm ammonia is very bad for your fish.

WC in QT without nitrification has to be of great percentage. 25% WC in QT without enough nitrification don't make much difference. Decay of poops and food to generate ammonia is not linear with time. There can be sudden surge of ammonia.

 

[sfboarders]

I know why. When you are just "seeding" a filter medium in the DT, it is just that, "seeding".

You need to have done more than "seeding". you have to allow the seed to grow to very dense population of nitrification bacteria. It is obvious if you would only think about it. Why would a lot of bacteria be established in a filter in DT when you have very low near zero ammonia? This is just commonsense, isn't it?

Nitrification bacteria will not grow fast and numerous enough if you only place it in a filter in DT; you will need to deliberately cycle the medium after it has been seeded.

Before you have your fish, you should have seeded and then cycled very well the medium intended for QT. You should have done so by adding an ammonia source and cycle in a separate container, or in the QT if you do not yet have any fish to be treated.

Now, you have to do a lot of extra work and QT is far less likely effective. Most people cannot adhere to water change for eight weeks.

0.25 ppm ammonia is very bad for your fish.

WC in QT without nitrification has to be of great percentage. 25% WC in QT without enough nitrification don't make much difference. Decay of poops and food to generate ammonia is not linear with time. There can be sudden surge of ammonia.

Filter has been in my sump since cycling. Actually I made a mistake. I did another test of ammonia and it was at 0PPM.

Note to self. Make sure when checking parameters that you are in well lit area.

BTW do you have all of your responses saved somewhere? I bet you get tired of copy and pasting the same thing over and over.

 

[wooden_reefer]

"Filter has been in my sump since cycling. Actually I made a mistake. I did another test of ammonia and it was at 0PPM."

Whether there will be enough nitrification in the medium depends on how long ago you cycled and how large the filter medium is.

If you have cycled for both the DT and the medium very well within about three weeks, the medium can have high enough nitrification.

copper alone should not affect nitrification by much. Since you have ammonia in QT, this is proof that your medium does not have enough nitrification.

It will have enough if you had cycled it deliberately.

 

[sfboarders]

Hey w_r, any chance you can answer this question for me? Thanks!

"I'll just empty the 20 gallon and put a new batch of water and new filter in there and start a new cycle with raw shrimp. Is it ok to run it with the filter media in the filter pad on the HOB or should I remove that during cycling? "

Also can I get that filter pad and run it in some hot water to clean off the bacteria and parasites?

 

[LargeAngels]

II tested for ammonia and it's at .25PPM already.

Make sure that the Ammonia test kit is compatible with Cupramine. Many will give false positive readings. I use Seachem's ammonia badge. DON'T EVER put any type of water conditioners when using Cupramine as that can be a deadly combination.

 

[sfboarders]

Make sure that the Ammonia test kit is compatible with Cupramine. Many will give false positive readings. I use Seachem's ammonia badge. DON'T EVER put any type of water conditioners when using Cupramine as that can be a deadly combination.

Thanks for the info. I'm not going with cupramine anymore. I'm going hyposalinity route.

 

[LargeAngels]

OK, but hypo is only good for ich, not velvet or anything else really.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Hey w_r, any chance you can answer this question for me? Thanks!



Also can I get that filter pad and run it in some hot water to clean off the bacteria and parasites?

Yes, even now it pays to cycle in a separate container.

If you start your cycle now using an ammonia source and particularily with the wet-dry setup, it will take only about three weeks to cycle. You can then transfer the cycled medium to your QT, taking care of close enough water parameters of course.

You then will have to do WC for only three weeks, not eight weeks, in order to eradicate ich.

Wet-dry is very easy; just drip water over the medium instead of having it submerged. When you actually use the cycled medium, it is best to duplicate the way you cycled with it, in regard to using wet-dry or total submersion.

But if the medium has been cycled very well with wet-dry, using it in submerged way will work, even with reduced efficiency of nitrification. Enough will be enough.

 

[sfboarders]

Yes, even now it pays to cycle in a separate container.

If you start your cycle now using an ammonia source and particularily with the wet-dry setup, it will take only about three weeks to cycle. You can then transfer the cycled medium to your QT, taking care of close enough water parameters of course.

You then will have to do WC for only three weeks, not eight weeks, in order to eradicate ich.

Wet-dry is very easy; just drip water over the medium instead of having it submerged. When you actually use the cycled medium, it is best to duplicate the way you cycled with it, in regard to using wet-dry or total submersion.

But if the medium has been cycled very well with wet-dry, using it in submerged way will work, even with reduced efficiency of nitrification. Enough will be enough.

I think we are on separate pages.

- I have a 20 gallon with nothing in it.
- The 20 gallon has a HOB filter and has filter media in it. I do not have a wet-dry filter.
- I'm going to dump the water in it and put new saltwater in it.
- I'm gonna clean out the filter pad that was seeded from my DT with hot water to remove the bacteria and parasites.
- The cleaned filter I'm gonna throw it back in the 20 gallon tank with the new saltwater.
- I'm gonna add a shrimp to start the cycle and so it can seed the filter with filter pad.
- Gonna let it cycle for how ever long it takes and keep it running as a full time QT for new fishes.