Sad day

C

ClarkiiClownfish

Active member
Sad day a few days ago. I had to put down my rottweiller. She had cancer and she was the best dog I ever had. She was 10.
If you have ever had to put down a dog that you love, then you know its a very tough thing to do....they are like your kids ya know?

Anyway...after coming home from the vet, I noticed that my female clownfish that I have had for 11 years was no where to be found. Upon a lot of inspection...she was dead behind a rock and was being a feast for my shimps and brittle stars and hermits.
Too weird. The day before she was fine....even ate. But she is gone now. Now I have a male all alone. He is a clarkkii clownfish.

I have had clarkii's for a long time....11 years. Now I am wanting to get into some rare clownfish. Either that, or I want to get some wild occellaris clowns...like 8 of them. I have read they are then only ones you can have more than 1 pair in the same tank.
The tank is a 180. The anemone is a ritterri and it is HUGE. I got it 11 years ago with the clowns. It was only about 7 inches across....now, when fully expandedm it is al least 25 inches across. It takes up the whole center portion of my tank.
Here is a pick of it and the clowns...this pic is a couple years old....the anemone is even bigger now.....it hasnt stopped growing yet. I have read they may never stop growing, and may even outlive me!

ritteri1.jpg


Am I correct about the occellaris clowns...being able to have more than 1 pair in the same tank? Also...whwere would I go to look for some rare clowns should I decide to go that route?
Thanks for reading.
 
yeah sorry to hear about that. If you want multiple pairs of Ocellaris, i would still go tank raised. just arrange the rock work so that after they all pair they wont be able to see each other as much.
 
I agree, I don't think that CB vs. WC makes a difference in this regard.

if you get them while juvenile they'll be OK for at least a little while. I don't know about keeping them long term with only one anemone, I suspect there will be aggression eventually.
 
I dont think you guys are following me.....i have read that if you get a group (5, 6, 8, 11, whatever) and put them in one tank with one anemone.....two will come to the forfront and be the mating pair...the rest will remain subordinates....they will not mate...only the top 2 pair will mate.....only when one of the pair dies, will one of the subs step up into a mating role......I have alos read that if there is a large group like that.....and the female is removed or dies.....the male that was mating with here will become female and one of the subs will step up and become the mating male....this is the kind of clown community I am seeking to have in my tank.

Also....wild caught occellaris have a much better chance of going to an anemone than tank raised. I have read that some tank raise occellaris' dopnt ever go to an anemone. And my ritterri is listed as one of the main hosts of occellaris clown.
 
First of all, the CB v. WC does not make a difference in likelyhood of hosting as far as most people have seen. Taking the limited number of fish out of the wild for an experiment is not advisable, especially with a species that is sooooo easily avilable as CB. Having a well established ritteri is definately a big plus. I think the big reason people have issues with ocellaris hosting is that they rarely have natural hosts for the fish. Hosting is a genetic trait not a learned trait, therefore it makes no difference where the eggs hatched.

I think everyone is following your plan. The problem is that the non-mated fish will continue to grow and will eventually become male. In nature, these fish would be attacked by the breeding pair and ultimately either be killed or move to another anemone and challenge the pair in the anemone. Then, other fry will eventually settle at the anemone from which they were chased and you might well have a number of juveniles in the anemone with the breeding pair. These are not always to be the offspring of the breeding pair. They are most certainly not clutch-mates of the breeding pair. In your tank there will not be a place for the growing fish to set up a home so they will be chased to death.

If you really want to try this you may well be able to go a few months before you have to start pulling the juvies. I would recommend trying percula instead of ocellaris because they grow much much slower so you'll probably be able to put off the aggression issues. I'd also get a group of VERY small fish and introduce them to the anemone. Then add a couple medium sized juvies that come from a community tank so they aren't yet showing any significant dominant behavior, I'd also suggest getting the less dominant fish from the tank so they are less likely to go right after the little guys.
 
The plan:

I have instructed my LFS to search out 10 WC true perc juveniles.
Now I know I am going to get a rash of crap for saying I prefer WC....but these guys are going to be guests of mine for a very, very long time. I dont want to have any problems with them not wanting to host in the anemone. I have kept clowns for a long time, and I have read a lot, and it does happen with tank raised clowns.......sometimes they dont want to host. I dont want to deal with that. I am going with WC, end of discussion on that topic. Nothing anyone can say will change my mind on that so you tree-huggers can drop it.

Now, I have also seen (and read about) multiple occellaris (percs) clowns in the same tank. I have seen it with my own eyes, and have read about it seen many, many times in the wild. The top two (the mating pair) run the show thats for sure, but they dont beat or chase up on the subordinates. They may shake their bodies a bit, but its all just jesturing....no real damage is done. I have seen this situation with my own eyes. Inland Marine (now out of business) had a large ritteri anemone with about 8 percs hosting it.....all at once.....and they had it for years and years, and they all did fine. None of them chased the others around or killed any of the subordinates.
This is not an "experiment" as you call it. I have seen it done. I am read about it done. And I have read about it seen in the wild.
So I am going to do it.
All 10 will go in at once, and we will see who rises to the top and becomes the mating pair and who remains subordinate.

I am sure there has got to be many on this board that have more than 2 adult percs in the same tank and host anemone......lets hear from you guys.
 
Sorry to hear about your clown.

In my experience and research, any occellaris will accept a magnifica regardless of being tank raised or WC. They are incredibly genetically attracted to them and can sense them from a distance. I agree that there are some valid reasons for going with WC though.

There has been research done in the wild that shows that the number if juvis accepted by a mated pair of occilerous is directly related to the diameter of the anemone. No one knows if this will hold true for a captive situation where there are no anemone predators to defend the anemone from. In the wild the juvis will not turn male or female until one of the mated pair dies, but again it is not known if this will hold true for tank life when there is no shortage of food.

In tanks it seems that pink skunks are the most likely to form sustainable family groups, and they are often in tight groupings in pictures of wild clowns.

If I were to do it though, I would start with two larger clowns as the future male and female and add several of the smallest juvis I could get my hands on. That way the male and female would be less threatened ant there would not be deaths while fighting for dominance.

Good luck with your effort. I would love to hear more about it and about the magnifica. I am especially interested to hear if the anemone has ever spawned and if you know the sex.

I'll see if I can dig up the paper about the number of juvis related to magnifica diameter for you.
 
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/nrc/cjz/2005/00000083/00000002/art00014

thats not the one I'm looking for, but I think it references it.

edit: still can't find it, but here is a similar study.
http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrec...venile+Amphiprion&uid=787374564&setcookie=yes

To explain myself about getting the large male and female, that is how it happens in the wild. The larval clowns will settle out to the anemones and the adults will either accept them as part of the group or not depending on (at least in part) the size of the anemone and the number of clowns already guarding it.
 
I think that posting to this thread isn't going to be much help now Cindy. He's already said he doesn't want any feedback except from people who agree with him as this is PROVEN in his mind to work. But thanks for the info, it'll be good to have.
 
I do mostly agree with him and actually plan on trying somthing similar but with WC broodstock and adding tiny tank raised babies later.

This is not to be confused with advocating this in any tank other than one with a very large magnifica and should definately not be taken as a reason for people to try buying a magnifica without serious consideration, preperation and research.

Let us know how it works out, Clarkii.

Edit:

thought I would add a pic from before my tank crash. This is the female of my O. clown pair with the juvi pink skunk who lived happily with them in the 22" diameter magnifica.

EditEdit: to actually add the pic :p
56032DSC05253-large.jpg
 
check with user mobert. She tried this too. I don't know exactly how it turned out but I'm sure she'd be happy to tell you about her experiences. One of the LFS around here recently had 3 different anemone/clown sets they were selling, apparently collected in the wild. A large malu with 4 clarkii-complex; a very large crispa with 5 or 6 perideraion; and a decent sized pair of melanopus with a colony of 4 small crispa.
 
Flighty....thanks for the info and the encouragement. I am pretty sure it will work for me. My anemone is large enough, there arent many other inhabitants in the tank (1 canary blenny, 2 blue/green chromis). I will keep everyone posted. It may be a while as I told my LFS I want excellent quality stock. She said she has a good supplier of fish and she will be contacting them early next week to give them the info that I am wanting their ten best true perc juvies. It may be a while before they even come in.

Dantodd....nothing is proven in this hobby when it comes to livestock, but just because you dont agree with what i am going to do, doesnt mean it wont work. Yeah, I may lose one or two in the process, who knows, but I give myself a 95% chance of success just because I have the huge ritteri, my tank is large and well maintained, and I have kept clowns and this same anemone alive and breeding for 11 years up until last week when the female died.
 
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