Sad, Sad ormolator issue

[reeffantic]

I was not going to say anything but, the dealer from whom I purchase my Osmolator suggested I report what happened.

The Osmolator sensor never reported to my pump that the sump was full of water and as a result, kept pumping water from my top-off resevoir into my reef. I have used it for over a year to date. Because I have an SPS only tank, my calcium requirments are high. My resevoir does not contain water only but, a Kalwasser mix that is pumped into my reef to account for evaporation.

Because the Osmolator kept on pumping the extra water into my sump, my tanks salinity dropped to less than 1.02 and the Ph shot up over 9. The end result was a massive RTN event that wholly or partially wiped out most of the SPS in my tank. Many of these were colonies that were over 10" across.

I am sad but, will recover. It is not easy to get over what was a great source of pride. Many of these colonies I grew from small frags. I tell you this for no reason other than to give you an FYI. I am a big fan of Tunze and will continue using their products.

 

[vapor1]

Sorry to hear about your loss . I hate to hear about ANY reef losses.

What size tank was this on and what size top off reservoir were you useing ?

It sounds to me like you were useing too large of a top off reservoir if it dropped your salinity all the way down . If my thinking is right, the top off reservoir should be sized so that your tank can handle the whole contents of the reservoir without causeing problems .


I may be wrong in my thinking, but I thought that was the reason for using the osmolator instead of just running an R/O output to a float switch .

 

[vapor1]

Someone correct me If I'm wrong . This seems like a good time to check my thinking on how I am useing the osmolator on my reef . Before I have a problem .

 

[reeffantic]

Hello Vapor1,

I have a seperate container (30 gal. trash can) containing top-off water for my reef. I am not sure what your thinking is. Until now, using a trash can of that size has never been a problem and has lessened the amount of work I need to put into my reef. That is really not the problem anyway. If the water sensor part of the Osmolator setup did not malfunction, we would not have a problem.

I am just sad. My reef is something I spend a great deal of time with and is a source of pride for me. This is an expensive hobby and I need to justify some of the expenses with my wife. With this happening and my need to spend A LOT more money, how do I do it?

 

[vapor1]

I was just trying to make my setup failsafe. So if the osmolator did malfunction , It will not wipe out my reef . I know how it feels to have a reef wiped out. I cooked one when I was on vacation and my mother came over to feed the dogs and turned off the air conditioning . Trying to save me some money...lol . Little did she know how much she cost me .

This was one of the reasons I purchased an osmolator instead of just running my r/o line to the sump . I am useing a 5 gal. container so that even if the osmolator fails , My tank will be able to handle the failure without a tank wipeout .

Isn't the osmolator supposed to shut off and give an alarm if the top sensor isn't made in 10 minutes ??

 

[moonpod]

this is really weird because the Osceola-cor also has a backup 10 min cutout, ie it turns the pump off after 10 Mins regardless.

 

[traveller7]

Sad to hear anyone learns the sizing of replacement water lesson in such a devastating manner

All equipment can fail, it is up to us to make sure there is a limit to the damage a failure can deliver.

Sorry for your losses.

 

[rvitko]

Where was the float switch in all this? Seems very odd that my dealer in Wisconsin would not have called me himself to discuss this or send an email.

 

[rvitko]

OK, I have done some calculations based on previous threads where you mention the tank volume is a 72BF. The Osmolator pump could generally pump no more than 8L in the 10 minutes before the time delay went off. The volume of your aquarium is roughly 275L. I would assume you have a sump or some other volume as well. The only way this feature would not work would be a yet unknown defect which given they are checked on an oscilliscope I have trouble believing this possibility, it could be longer delay though and still pass. The other possibility is you positioned the hose so it started a siphon from the reservoir into the tank so the delay made no difference, whether the pump was on or not the water would continue to flow because the destination was below the source- running a hose to the sump is a definite cause of this. I suppose it might also be possible that the osmolator was damaged but I have never seen a damage one function at all. 8l into 275L witha SG of 1.023- taken from a previous thread would result in an SG of 1.022. Not knowing the concentration of tha kalkwasser I cannot calculate this change but would assume a far less drastic change. Even if this system failed excluding the condition where a siphon exists the float switch should have shut off the pump. I would really like to see this Osmolator because such a condition has never been heard of before.

 

[RGibson]

Roger how many Osmolator have you sold in the United States?

 

[RGibson]

reeffantic you did a good thing by reporting what happened to your reef tank so others who have a Osmolator would know ,that is what reef central is all about.

 

[rvitko]

I don't know exactly but it is well over 200, maybe 300 or more. 30 a month with occasional lags is about the average sales.

I might disagree as I feel it would have been most fair for the manuacturer or agent to have a chance to resolve the issue first. At this point we have nothing- is it a product issue or an installation issue. This unfairly creates doubts about a product that has a virtually perfect track record. We have never had a technical failure of this sort and I am still hard pressed to see how with two redundant safeties this could happen if both were employed.

 

[RGibson]

Thanks for your reply.

 

[gooch]

Reeffantic, when I suggested you contact Roger I did not suggest on a public forum. I figured he would have you send the unit in so he could take a look at it to see if it was faulty or damaged in some way. It was a much bigger thing than I could deal with and it is always easier to get the story straight from the person that had the problem instead of from a middle man. When I was done talking to you I was under the impression that you were not going to make an issue of it and not contact Roger. I guessed I dropped the ball and should of made Roger aware of the issue but it happened to be a very busy day in the shop and I forgot about it. My bad. I sell a lot of osmolators and have not had any major issue with them. If someone does have a problem it is usually a maintenance thing where it needed cleaning or something was set on the float(again a maintenance issue). They do need to be cleaned to work properly. As does every piece of equipment we use on our tanks. I use them on almost every system I have and set up. I feel like they are one of the best investments a person can make for thier tank.

 

[rvitko]

I want to say i am not mad at reeffeanatic and people shouldn't feel uncomfortable to come to me with equipment problems. The problem with this sort of post is people assume there is a problem where there isn't one necessarily and I get a half dozen copy cat complaints about imagined issues or issues that are a result of a cat or a two year old. In a given week I average 4 repairs. One or two are things that are old and just need service. Innevitably though I get things that have nothing wrong with them or something simple that could have been solved easily or something which was damaged through misuse. The only reason I frown on this sort of post is I can count on 2-3 weeks of people assuming that a minor glitch from a bubble is a product defect and a much greater workload as a result.

Thanks Scott, I will disagree somewhat though in that if cleaning were the only issue here the float should have stopped it or the time delay so that is the issue- what caused the two safeties to fail. I have always seen osmolators fail in the off position and that is how they are designed so I would like to get to the bottom of why the safety systems didn't stop the problem. A faulty float switch should have never even allowed the unit to work in the first place so unless it was deliberately by passed or a strange flaw occured I am very puzzled.

 

[Fliger]

Man I am bummed for your loss! I had a kalk accident and I know how it goes! It involved my osmo - but was entirely my error. To be fair, where was the float switch - or did I miss that? My float switch won't allow for 1/2 gallon extra to go into my tank if the red-eye fails.

You definitely did a great thing by posting here - it lets people know exactly how important that float switch is. Good luck with setting back up. I'm having to basically start over as well. I will try to resist Reefermadness and grow out frags. ;-)

 

[RGibson]

Roger a faulty float switch is not a strange problem its a part that can and do fail. And useding words like deliberately by passed and strange flaw,make it sound like the owner of the control has done something wrong.The one thing that you left out is the control just fail.

 

[rvitko]

Float switches do fail but not so likely in the way we use them. When constantly submerged they are prone to failure because water enters them and causes a short. If they are installed properly they are rarely called upon and almost never submerged so they should always work. Further they are wired in such a way that the default function would mean that if shorted or damaged the osmolator should stop working. It is not impossible for this system to fail, nothing is impossible but with an optical sensor as a primary that should and almost always has failed in the off position unless it was air bubbles that were the cause of failure, a float switch as a secondary that should have sounded an alarm and shut off the pump and a 10minute time delay which should have shut the unit off after a maximum 15minutes and a pump that could only pump 15L in this time and that would be a maximum with almost no headpressure. While it is possible, it is extremely unlikely and I would like to test it. I can honestly say the failure rate on Tunze products is extremely low and a failure of this type is very hard to imagine, everything is tested and while things can be damaged in shipping and certain aspects such as length of time delays are not tested because it would take the length of the time delay to do such a test, the oscilliscope readings should point out such a flaw.