Safe size for 2nd floor apartment???

[KevinFJB]

I think you would be OK - but get an expert opinion if you can.

I'm also on a second floor of an old building with a 112g tank and 40g sump.

As suggested, go perpendicular to the floor joists on a load baring wall. The joists should be 16" apart on center, and the good thing about old buildings is that the 2" x 10"'s were actually 2" x 10". Don’t count on a sheet of plywood to evenly distribute the load over the floor. You might want to put something under the feet of your stand if its metal. I use metal plates that sit between the floor and the foot of industrial racks (from Home Depot) to help spread the weight of each foot over an area ~ 5” x 6”, rather than the smaller 1.5” x 1.5” foot of the tube metal stand.

 

[reefkoi]

I think you are all overreacting here, its a 90!!! thats not that much weight, what a thousand pounds? do you actually think the floor will drop out like it does in the movies or something?
Really its not that much weight spread out over a couple feet. what does a fully loaded referigerator weigh? what about a water bed, or a room full of people partying. Dont fat people live in apartments? I've never heard of a floor failing from a fish tank. I'd love to see pictures or an article where this was actually documented.

 

[KevinFJB]

There is a lot of misconcpetions about floor loads and when you are worried about it affecting your own floor, its worth gathering info. I don't thinka 90g will casue you any trouble, but do a Web search for the article "Residential Wood Framed Floors and Aquarium Weights" written by Kevin Bauman for some more info. It's a good read and tackles a lot of counter arguments commonly given (e.g., waterbeds, bathtubs and a bunch of big guys jumping up and down on the floor without causing it to fail)

 

[montanabay]

think about it this way, would you ask 4 of your biggest friends to stand toe to toe with you in any give spot in your aparment? Say everyone comes in at 200lbsx5=1000lbs, about the same as your tank and sump....no problems, if it couldn't do that then the building has issues and no one should be living in it. BUT, plan for the worst and think what happens when that sump overflows (more likely then your floor giving out!).....what kind of issues/damage with the structure you might have.....

 

[davocean]

I agree w/ Montanabay.
My biggest concern would be flooding, I wouldn't even stress the weight issue.
Don't know how buildings are where you live, but here I haven't seen concrete sub on a second floor apt or house.
Not saying there aren't, just haven't seen it in my 15yrs as a carpenter.
Pull up a corner of carpet, you'll see right away.
And yes, you can tuck it right back no problem.
And a ply bottom on your stand definitely spreads the load more evenly.
I would just do everything you can to avoid flood, check valves, maybe a pond liner or something for small spills.
Renters insurance may be a wise choice.

 

[reefkoi]

davocean, we live in colorado so yeah concrete floors on upper levels are sometimes built this way out here. even residential housing upper floors with radiant heat is done this way, I guess we have snow load and we almost all have basements, its much different than cali of course.

I think the water leaking or flooding is the only concern. with a 10 gallon tank its a concern. I'd say renters insurance is the best bet and really make sure you plumb it properly dont half a$$ the plumbing.

 

[KevinFJB]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9190072#post9190072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by davocean
I agree w/ Montanabay.
My biggest concern would be flooding, I wouldn't even stress the weight issue.
Don't know how buildings are where you live, but here I haven't seen concrete sub on a second floor apt or house.
Not saying there aren't, just haven't seen it in my 15yrs as a carpenter.
Pull up a corner of carpet, you'll see right away.
And yes, you can tuck it right back no problem.
And a ply bottom on your stand definitely spreads the load more evenly.
I would just do everything you can to avoid flood, check valves, maybe a pond liner or something for small spills.
Renters insurance may be a wise choice.

How does a sheet of plywood that is not stiff, that can bend, evenly spread the load of a tank on stand on a floor?

 

[vijaym85]

Everytime someone asks the question about maximum weight tank someone always uses the big friends analogy. But your 4-5 big friends are not situated on that one spot for years right. You watch tv with them they get up and leave (hopefully). The tank is static dead weight that sits there for potentially years. The weight will also be distributed unevenly since its on only one end of the room. The opposite side wall will have much less weight on it. I think a 90g is not that bad but always consider the fact that the tank is just sitting there not moving. I have a 150 and a 30g on a second floor by the way.

 

[davocean]

Some stands are on legs, and that can push weight on the subfloor more than the joists, thats why I say a ply bottom spreads the load better.
I understand codes and structures are different in different areas, but I wouldn't just assume he's on concrete, that's why I suggested pulling carpet to take a look.
Many people have waterbeds, or even your bathtub can be pretty heavy and sit there for a long time.
I personally have a 90 for about 11 years now.
It's been on second floor twice for a pretty long time w/ no problem.
But hey, I guess you can have structural engineer or archetect check if you are really concerned.
Again, I'd be more concerned w/ flooding.

 

[engine]

well i pulled up the carpet and as soon as I lifted the padding, all I saw was concrete. So that is good news I feel better about that now. I also want to say that I agree that flooding is the major concern, so im gonna do the best plumbing job i can.

 

[davocean]

That's cool, so no worries.
I'll have to remember the concrete thing in diff states, I got to learn something.
Pond liners are great for little floods.
Check sump that you have room for power failure.
I had my locklines low in the water and didn't realize they'd siphon until I checked, thought it would just stop at overflow level.
Glad I tested.
Renters insurance is cheap, and if you have people below(or even for yourself), not a bad thing to have.

 

[engine]

where exactly is the pond liner placed?

 

[chriscolt]

load bearing and flood insurance

load bearing and flood insurance

Depending on the layout of your apartment, in most cases, the floor joists are running from the front of the building (forget your apartment for a minute) to the back of the building perpendicular to the long end of the structure. So if you picture your apartment complex as a rectangle that is (for illustration purposes) the size of a 180 gallon tank that is 72 x 24 - the joists would run the 24 " length. The supporting walls are all the outside walls PLUS the wall that runs lengthwise down the middle (using the tank again, the supporting wall would run end to end on the 72" length) - so that actual floor joists would be 12 inches to the middle support beam to the front exterior wall and then another 12" joist would continue from the center support wall to the back supporting wall (12 plus 12 = 24). You can put your tank across (perpendicular) several joists and against one of the supporting walls - either the outside or the center - In apartments, the center wall may have a hallway running down the middle for access to the apartments. So the center structural beam may actually be in the middle of the hallway. This analysis is for regular rectangle shaped apartment complexes or single family homes. The website that once of the other members referred you to (the one that talks to load calculations) is very good - but you probably can't tell if you have 2x10 or 2x 12 joists - but your building owner certainly can tell you and he/she can also verify the load bearing walls on the interior of the apartment and verify the direction the joists are running. BTW The joists in the ceiling will run in the same direction as the joists in the floor - so if you shine a bright light - like a halogen - at the sheetrock on the ceiling you may be able to tell where the screw or nail marks are that hold up the sheetrock - then you can easily verify the direction of the ceiling joists which do run in the same direction as your floor joists.

Even if you floor is poured concrete - there are still structural joists holding up the floor - although they may be steel and the load bearing may be so high that you need not worry at all from a weight perspective (concrete is heavy to begin with) - again, if you put the tank against an outside load bearing wall - I don't think you need to worry about collapse - but the leaking issue is a whole other story.

As far as leaks are concerned - your design can take into consideration the most common leak problems and you can design to offset those risks (like the pond liner idea above, you can get pond liners at Lowes, Home depot or a major garden center) - but having insurance to protect against floods would also be smart and may also be required in your township if you have an aquarium- I don't know a lot about this, but any decent apartment insurance firm (like Illustrate) can talk to you about it. Your complex may have tenant flood insurance - usually if they allow washer/dryers in the apartments they have some kind of flood insurance. The downside of asking the landlord is he/she may just take the easy route and say you can't have the tank. I would talk to an apartment insurance company first and get the inside scoop on this type of thing - your local township government may also have a department for apartment dwellers - and may have some ideas for insurance and your rights as a tenant

Sorry for the long response

Chris

 

[engine]

good information....luckily, according to your post i have it perpendicular to the joist and on a supporting wall...just not exactly sure about the pond liner. Does it go underneath sump in the stand or under the carpet or what?

 

[engine]

^

 

[davocean]

I lined the whole bottom of my stand and went up 1 1/2 on sides(height of the 2x framing) and stapled top.
Allows for a good bit of spillage.

 

[davocean]

By the way, just checked volume for 1 1/2 x 24 x 72
11.2g
That covers a decent spill.
Check valves aren't a bad idea also.

 

[engine]

sounds like a good plan to me.....im adding the pond liner to my already long list of things i need to buy for my tank lol