Sailfin Tang

[snake42490]

My Sailfin Tang that has been in QT for 3 weeks now is developing something on it's skin. This fish came in with a small infestation of ich and was treated with TTM for the first 12 days. It has gone through two full rounds of prazi as well. Any idea what I might be dealing with here. It is definitely not ich !


Fish is eating. I noticed this on the fish a couple days ago and thought that it was just a scar on the fish, but whatever it is has definitely spread as of today.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43908624/2013-04-12 20.02.51.mp4


I wondered if this could be maybe something bacterial?

 

[HumbleFish]

Secondary infections are not uncommon after a bout with Ich. Sometimes it clears up on it's own; sometimes you need to use antibiotics. It's a judgement call. The risk in taking the "clears up on it's own" or "maybe it's not a bacterial infection" route is if you're wrong, the fish will eventually reach the point of no return. So, being you already have him in QT, I would go ahead & treat with erythromycin. Erythromycin is a lot gentler than a lot of other antibiotics. The worst that's likely to happen is he stops eating for a few days.

 

[snake42490]

I think I'm going to go the bacterial route. I'm limited to what stores have around here.. I have a Pet Co and a Petsmart, but they never have any meds in stock besides copper and melafix. Petsmart might have that API collection.. I think one of those is Erythromycin based.

 

[HumbleFish]

I think I'm going to go the bacterial route. I'm limited to what stores have around here.. I have a Pet Co and a Petsmart, but they never have any meds in stock besides copper and melafix. Petsmart might have that API collection.. I think one of those is Erythromycin based.

Either Petco or Petsmart usually has API Erythromycin. Good luck! BTW, you have the worst luck with fish! :uhoh3:

 

[snake42490]

I know it's weird, but I enjoy getting the fish better. My LFS gives me free fish when they are about to die. Then I try and bring them back. There tanks are awful yet they don't do anything about it. They have ich , velvet, brook, uronoma, flukes and black ich. It's sad, I can't tell you how bad the fish are. They most of the time they only live 4 days. They will come in on tuesday and by the weekend they will be dead. I haven't seen one clownfish survive more than a week there. I have sent letters to the company and they don't see anything wrong with how things are handled. I find it sad more than anything just because these fish won't make it. I worked at the store and quit because they wouldn't let me do anything about it. Anyway, I will go in there to get stuff and they will just send me out the door with fish that are going to die and say have it. I take them in and try and make them better. It's been a learning experience that's for sure. It seems like I will start making headway on a fish then it just falls off the deep end lol. I am down to two chromis left, those were from foster though. Then the sailfin and the powder brown I got for free from Petco. I have a couple beers in me so don't mind the rambling lol.


I completely bring this on myself, but I feel like I am saving a few innocent fish.. They need to just bleach their system and start fresh. It's not like 1 or 2 fish has this. These fish are heavily infested, every tang has 200 300 ich spots, peeling skin. Usually only one gill will be functioning.

After trying this several times, the drug that has saved me the most is formalin. Before I was trying copper and hypo salinity. Hypo worked sometimes if the fish wasn't too far gone. That powder brown when I got it was barely breathing, I threw it in the high dose of formalin for an hour and by morning it was swimming. Of course that's only part of the battle lol. Prazipro has also been amazing. I feel very comfortable with dealing with the parasites flukes and worms. I haven't had to deal with any bacteria related stuff though!

 

[HumbleFish]

Oh, believe me, I get it. Many years ago I had a similar arrangement with a LFS. Through reading (and lots of trial and error), I figured out which meds/methods had the best chance of working and which didn't. It also didn't hurt that since I wasn't paying for the fish if he died, I was willing to experiment more freely. Ultimately I figured out that it all comes down to the individual fish. "Only the strong survive" applies even more in an aquarium than it does in the ocean. The fish can either handle the meds/poison (some people don't know that copper is actually a poison) it takes to make him better, or it hastens his death. Or sometimes it all comes down to catching a malady early on, and moving with a sense of urgency before you reach that point of no return.

Nowadays prophylactically using TT or CP has made my life so much easier. (I know you've had difficulties using the latter.) Add in two rounds of Prazi either before or after, and the fish is usually good to go. I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but I'm not seeing as many bacterial infections as I used to. I don't know if it's because using TT keeps the water so clean and/or if CP has some antibiotic properties as well. But both methods seem to be pretty fool proof. I can't always say the same for copper.

 

[snake42490]

Okay so update, I ended up dosing Melafix that night to the tank and have been gone all day today and didn't get to see the fish until tonight. Well, I came home and there were only two small areas that I could visibly see! I know some people think that melafix is snake oil, but it seemed to help! Either that or the fish immune system kicked in. Anyway, I got Tetracycline and Erythromycin on hand in case the fish takes a turn for the worse. At this point I'm going to dose with melafix again and see if the fish can't beat this naturally without throwing more meds at it.

 

[ladyshark]

Secondary infections are not uncommon after a bout with Ich. Sometimes it clears up on it's own; sometimes you need to use antibiotics. It's a judgement call. The risk in taking the "clears up on it's own" or "maybe it's not a bacterial infection" route is if you're wrong, the fish will eventually reach the point of no return. So, being you already have him in QT, I would go ahead & treat with erythromycin. Erythromycin is a lot gentler than a lot of other antibiotics. The worst that's likely to happen is he stops eating for a few days.

Sorry to highjack the thread, but was curious about your comment that the fish may stop eating when dosing Erythromycin---is this antibiotic an appetite suppressive? Curious, as I am treating a foxface with this for a skin wound.

 

[HumbleFish]

Sorry to highjack the thread, but was curious about your comment that the fish may stop eating when dosing Erythromycin---is this antibiotic an appetite suppressive? Curious, as I am treating a foxface with this for a skin wound.

Appetite suppression is common with erythromycin. Which is why s/w Maracyn (active ingredient: erythromycin) contains "B complex vitamins" to counteract this, as those are appetite stimulants. Unfortunately, the original s/w Maracyns are getting harder to find. I think they've been replaced by "Maracyn Plus" - a broad spectrum antibiotic that contains two active ingredients I am unfamiliar with. And no appetite stimulant. Which is unfortunate, because IME all meds (even Prazi) can have side affects; appetite suppression just being the most common. It all depends on the individual fish. I know it can be unsettling to see a fish suddenly stop eating. But IME the fish will likely resume eating (albeit slowly) once the treatment ends.

 

[snake42490]

I think I finally have this under control. I have been keeping three different kinds of nori in the tank, green red and purple and I have been soaking it in Vita-chem and selcom prior to putting it in the tank. I used fresh aged water rather than water from my Display tank. I figured limiting the amount of bacteria in the tank will help the fish. The ammonia will be fine for 3 days before anything happens so I plan on adding some filter media from my DT to the QT after about three days with a little water change. I'm going to keep dosing Melafix and keep up the feedings. I'm seeing less and less spots every day now.

 

[snake42490]

Okay, well you think something is working then it's not. I don't know what I am dealing with here. I kept doing the Melafix and on the second day it just seemed to still be there. I think the color of the fish changed and made it not be as noticeable. Anyway, I am not treating with Erthromycin and i'm on day two and it doesn't seem to be looking any better. What do you guys think? Does this appear to be bacterial to you guys?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43908624/2013-04-17 22.27.10.mp4

 

[NTP66]

Appetite suppression is common with erythromycin. Which is why s/w Maracyn (active ingredient: erythromycin) contains "B complex vitamins" to counteract this, as those are appetite stimulants. Unfortunately, the original s/w Maracyns are getting harder to find. I think they've been replaced by "Maracyn Plus" - a broad spectrum antibiotic that contains two active ingredients I am unfamiliar with. And no appetite stimulant. Which is unfortunate, because IME all meds (even Prazi) can have side affects; appetite suppression just being the most common. It all depends on the individual fish. I know it can be unsettling to see a fish suddenly stop eating. But IME the fish will likely resume eating (albeit slowly) once the treatment ends.

FWIW, my trigger lost his appetite on PraziPro while in QT, but ate like a freakin' pig while going through one round of Maracyn Plus for a small gash on his side (which it cleared up pretty well, and quickly).

 

[HumbleFish]

FWIW, my trigger lost his appetite on PraziPro while in QT, but ate like a freakin' pig while going through one round of Maracyn Plus for a small gash on his side (which it cleared up pretty well, and quickly).

This "new" Maracyn Plus might be worth a look. I'm just old, cranky and thus, very resistant to change. :beachbum:

 

[snake42490]

bump**

Any ideas what else I should be trying guys? What does this look like to you?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43908624/2013-04-17 22.27.10.mp4

 

[HumbleFish]

bump**

Any ideas what else I should be trying guys? What does this look like to you?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43908624/2013-04-17 22.27.10.mp4

Are those white spots under the skin or on top of the skin? The larger ones look on top (to me), almost like they're hanging off. That reminds me of worms. The smaller spots look under the skin (which could mean Ich). I would be tempted to give him a f/w dip, and see what falls off and what doesn't. It's possible you are dealing with more than one malady here.

 

[snake42490]

I will try a FW dip and see what happens. They appear to be on the outside of the skin.

I did two rounds of prazi.... Maybe it didn't get everything.

 

[snake42490]

Okay tried the freshwater dip. Nothing came off and it just stressed the fish more than anything. I only did it for 10 minutes just because I didn't see anything come off.

Any other ideas guys... I want to get a hold on it before it takes over the fish.

 

[snake42490]

Iv'e done tank transfer method, I did four baths in formalin because the lfs I got this fish form has some nasty stuff in the tank. I also did two rounds of prazi pro. The fish was had these spots but I thought maybe it was irritation from the formalin or something and it has slowly been showing up more and more everyday. I thought that the Melafix was helping, but what it was doing was stressing the fish and making it turn pale white. This was hiding everything on the body. I did that for four days and realized it wasn't working and switched to erythromycin. I am on day 3 of that and notice no improvement. I just did the freshwater dip and now it's back in the QT tank.

 

[HumbleFish]

If nothing fell off during the f/w dip, then you are probably either dealing with something bacterial or parasitic. TT should have taken care of Ich (unless done improperly), and if the fish had Velvet he'd be dead by now. So thru process of elimination, that leaves us with bacterial. Unless I'm mistaken, Melafix is just an herbal remedy which aids the immune system. This fish needs something stronger than that. Erythromycin is a good antibiotic, but slow acting and is most effective against gram positive bacteria, not gram negative. So, I would either stay the course with that (and realize you're possibly in for a long haul), or switch over to something more broad spectrum like Furan-2.

 

[snake42490]

Okay, none of the local places carry Furan 2... Petsmart carries every other product line though. Is there any other med that might work?? I know some of the freshwater ones you can use double dose and it will work.

I can get
Triple Sulfa
Mardel® Maracyn-Two®
Fungus Cure
Tetracycline
Maracyn Plus Biospheres AntiBacteria Therapy from Mardel
Instant Ocean Lifeguard


Do you think any of those might work until I can get Furan 2?