Salifert Flatworm Exit

[Deleted member 143833]

I will start by saying that this product is amazing but some better instructions would have helped. For example, there was no mention on how to tell when the flatworms start to die and little did I expect them to all let go and float in the water column. A suggestion to the directions would be to suggest a filter sock; that would have helped me (and I suspect anyone with a sump).

On to my question; The mass of the population has been eradicated but 24 hours after a second dose I sill see some straglers (and I want to be rid of these critters once and for all). I have about 210 G of water between the tank + sump so I used 1 bottle (2 times) which indicates it would treat 300 G. Even after the second dose all where not gone. The directions say to add 50% more, which I technically have already done and still have some left. Do you know at what level the Flatworm Exit becomes toxic? I suspect that I am going to need to go above 1 package to rid the straglers but how should I go about it? Should I add 1 bottle, wait 30 mins and add 50% of the 2nd bottle, wait 30 min and add the remainder of a second bottle (if they few left alive are still not DOA)?

I don't think there are enough worms to cause a toxisity issue iun the tank but I am concerned about the Flatworm Exit as I did notice some tank critters didn't like it in the water (ricordia in particular and I found that it killed some micro crittle stars as well).

Please advise.

 

[MarineDepot]

Hello Kenneth,

Thanks for your post, first and foremost please read and follow the instructions carefully any deviation may cause unwanted results and can be harmful to your tank. Also it's wise to have at least 25% water ready for a water change. To be on the safe side. Please refer to the following links on some important remarks http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idProduct=SF5111

I hope you find this information helpful.

Walter F
Marine Depot Customer Services
www.Marinedepot.com
714.385.0080 Phone
714.385.0180 Fax

 

[Deleted member 143833]

Yes, I have read all the information but it does not say what to do when the 50% more does not kill the flatworms and that is what I am asking about. The directions 'appear' to suggest that you can add 50% every 45 minutes until the worms are dead but it is not totally clear if I should add another 50% more after 90 minutes if the worms are not dead; that is my main question?

If after 45 min, and I add 50% more, then another 45 min goes by and the worms are still not dead then should I add another 50%?

There are just a few straglers that are hanging on but I don't want the population to increase. I figure it is lesser risk to kill them now than to allow the population grow and have to kill them when there are many more in the tank.

 

[MarineDepot]

Hi Kenneth,

I would try to syphon out as much as you physically can first but according to the instructions, yes I would add 50% more after 45 min. As soon as the flatworms start to die, start with the activated carbon to take out any toxic body juices that are released. Just keep a close watch on your tank for at least 6 hours after the treatment.

I hope this helps


Walter F
Marine Depot Customer Services
www.Marinedepot.com
714.385.0080 Phone
714.385.0180 Fax

 

[Deleted member 143833]

It doesn't sound like you are understanding my question. I have already treated 2 times and have completed a 50% water change and have been running large amounts of carbon.

There are only a handfull of worms still hanging on that I can see; maybe 10 or so. I figure the count is extreemly low but I want to erradicate them all (so that I don't have to re-treat in the future after the population grows). My question is about how much chemical I can add to the tank; I tried the dose + 50% and there are still some worms unaffected; can I add another 50% above the 50% increase already added?

At this point I am not concerned about the toxisity of the worms (I don't think there are many left) but I am worried about the medication. Do you know of a doseage that would become toxic to the tank? For example, what if I does 200% (rather than 150%)?

 

[MarineDepot]

Hi Kenneth,

I apologize if we weren't on the same page in my initial replies. Below I have copied your questions and added answers below them. Hopefully they make sense and gets us on the same page. But if not please let me know so we can get your flatworms out of your tank.

Q: The directions say to add 50% more, which I technically have already done and still have some left.

A; I know some people have dosed extra from the beginning, but according to Saliferts instructions you should dose the recommended amount initially and if no flatworms have died within 45 minutes you should add 50% more. So if you still have some stragglers in the tank and you want to dose again with the Flatworm exit I would suggest trying the initial dose and if after 45 minutes those ones are still not affected, add 50% more.

Q; Do you know at what level the Flatworm Exit becomes toxic?

At this point I am not concerned about the toxicity of the worms (I don't think there are many left) but I am worried about the medication. Do you know of a dosage that would become toxic to the tank? For example, what if I does 200% (rather than 150%)?

A; Unfortunately I am not aware at what concentration it becomes toxic to the other inhabitants of the tank. I would not go above Salifert's recommended dosage. If you start with their initial recommendation (4 drops per 5 gallons) and add in the 50% (2 drops per 5 gallon), the max I would recommend would be 6 drops per 5 gallons over 45 minutes. You may want to search Reef Central to see if others have dosed at higher levels and if they had any ill effects from it. We need to go by what the manufacturer recommends for products such as this and can not recommend going above it. Again I am sure others have tried going above the recommended dosage and may have posted their results here on RC, but we can not make these types of recommendations.

Q; I suspect that I am going to need to go above 1 package to rid the stragglers but how should I go about it? Should I add 1 bottle, wait 30 mins and add 50% of the 2nd bottle, wait 30 min and add the remainder of a second bottle (if they few left alive are still not DOA)?

I don't think there are enough worms to cause a toxicity issue in the tank but I am concerned about the Flatworm Exit as I did notice some tank critters didn't like it in the water (ricordia in particular and I found that it killed some micro crittle stars as well).

There are only a handful of worms still hanging on that I can see; maybe 10 or so. I figure the count is extremely low but I want to eradicate them all (so that I don't have to re-treat in the future after the population grows). My question is about how much chemical I can add to the tank; I tried the dose + 50% and there are still some worms unaffected; can I add another 50% above the 50% increase already added?



A; Again I would not go above the recommendations of the manufacturer (and we must go by what their recommendations are). Going above their recommendations can put your livestock in jeopardy.


Q; The directions 'appear' to suggest that you can add 50% every 45 minutes until the worms are dead but it is not totally clear if I should add another 50% more after 90 minutes if the worms are not dead; that is my main question?

Q: If after 45 min, and I add 50% more, then another 45 min goes by and the worms are still not dead then should I add another 50%?

A: I don't believe they are saying keep adding 50% more every 45 minutes. I read this as a one time thing, if after 45 minutes no visible death has occurred you can add 50% more. Then start with the carbon and water changes after that.


Q: There are just a few stragglers that are hanging on but I don't want the population to increase. I figure it is lesser risk to kill them now than to allow the population grow and have to kill them when there are many more in the tank.

A; If you only have a couple left that you can visually see, I would suggest siphoning out the remaining few. What I have used in the past (and it works great to siphon them out without removing much water from the tank) is airline tubing. This will allow you to pinpoint the few remaining ones without removing 20 gallons of water from your tank. Or if you do have a filter sock, you can siphon with a normal hose into your sump, but make sure you catch the water with the filter sock. That will help trap the remaining flatworms without removing any water from the tank.

I have also had very good luck using sixline wrasses in past tanks to help rid the tank of flatworms. While they can be somewhat of a hit or miss solution, I have had three and they all worked on flatworms.

Walter

Marine Depot Customer Services

 

[fuschia_red]

ken,

You have to be very careful about using that flatworm exit. I as well as many of us in this forum have used this method to great success in the past but you're reaching toxic levels if you're dosing it that much. If you've only a few straglers here and there, I recommend what Walt said at the end--a six-line wrasse.

I got one a while back and I have not seen flatworms since. Of course, I haven't seen small brittle stars either.

 

[Deleted member 143833]

Update:

I went ahead and dosed to 300% (210 G tank, 600 G dose); nothing additional was lost. The small brittle stars where lost even at small doses so I didn't feel there would be much difference at a higher dose. I also came across an article from some guy at the Baltimore Aquarium who reports he uses it at 500% dose in order to fully irradicate the worms (I wish I kept the link to the article).

At this dose many worms came out of the sand bed, maybe a few hundred in all and I haven't seen any since (about 2 1/2 weeks ago). My suspicion is that even though there where only a few visible the actual count is much higher. I feel that if the higher dose rid my tank of the worms once and for all then it was worth it. I mourned the death of the stars but a crash of the worm population would have been much worse (IMHO).

 

[flomojo]

flatworm exit

flatworm exit

Just wanted to validate your decision on taking the chance of higher dosing. I recently attended the Marine Aquarium Expo in Costa Mesa, CA and Frank Burr, owner of The Coral Oasis (Coral Farm) and Tropical Reef Oasis (Retail Store) was one of the guest speakers. His presentation was about quarantine methods and treatments dealing with the eradication of corals pests. Regarding the use of flatworm exit, he has had success with dosing 5 drops per gallon (along with the subsequent siphoning, water change, carbon). He said it's much better to eradicate them once and for all from the get go. The manfacturer's recommended lower dosage often leaves stragglers that produce offspring with higher resistance to the medication, creating a never ending battle.