Salifert v. Seachem Ca Test Results

[BeanAnimal]

I just had a look at the seachem website and their PDF intructions. I sure hope the instructions are more complicated than the actual tests. All of my tests kits are "fill to line and add drops type". One of them (calcium) is confusing as to the endpoint color, as it can be either side of 2-3 drops depending on how you look at it. At a step value fo 20.. that is up to 120 ppm error just reading the darn thing, let alone errors in the test itself.

My alkalinity test changes from blue to yellow and each drop is 1 dkH. A no brainer. The seachem kit instructions seemed VERY invloved for the alkalinity.

In looking at the Hach website... I see they have a digital titrator for $168. That seems kinda neat. The more I look, the more I become confused. A recomended test kit list would be a great value here.

Bean

 

[Hobster]

very true: Just adding mine to the list if you want to get some random samples from different areas. At least to see if mine is close to what you got.
We can get a general idea, but with many different individuals doing the tests with different lot#s I don't know if it would be statistically valid results.

 

[leebca]

BA,

Like I had posted: Both the Seachem and LaMotte test kits for Ca require a sample dilution. It is easy for Seachem. Just fill a vial they provide with distilled water and add it to the vial of the sample, then continue.

Like most directions, they can be a bit challenging at first, then after the 20th test, you're into a grove. When you look at the reagents and hardware provided, you can do it from memory and reading the reagent labels.

 

[leebca]

Randy,

Just realized that the calculator doesn't offer Dow Flake as a choice for Ca addition. That's what I have. How to convert which one?

Thanks.

 

[RustySnail]

One question regarding the testkit "error"...

What is the age of the Salifert kit(s) that are giving low readings? I had this problem a few months ago; but my Salifert kit was probably 3+ years old and I figured that it was just out-dated. The same happened with a friend's kit; we tested them against the Seachem standard to verify the Salifert kit(s) accuracy. The reason IMHO was that the kits had started going bad. There is also a question about the Seachem standard; but unless there is a way to make a standard we wont know if the Seachem standard is actually higher in Ca than it is labeled at. NSW -might- be a good thing to test/use as a Ca standard.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just realized that the calculator doesn't offer Dow Flake as a choice for Ca addition. That's what I have. How to convert which one?

Use the entry for anhydrous CaCl2 and multiple the answer by 1.2

 

[leebca]

I thought I had asked this question. Sorry for the other post. (I had anticipated the factor would be 1.3).

 

[leebca]

RustySnail,

I think evaluating the standard is pretty straight forward. If the SeaChem test kit and the LaMotte test kit both confirm the standard's labeled concentration.

We speak a lot about test kits going bad. It doesn't seem to be a secret. Then why doesn't the manufacturer put plainly on the outside of the package its expiration date? If it was something we ate, they would have to. :mixed:

 

[steve the plumb]

Is there a test kit that any one here reccomends.I would think that all these companys make tons of money off this hobby.I can't understand why they cannot make a reliable test kit considering the average reefer spends thousands of dollars on corals,equipement,fish.I spent $28 on the salifert test kit I expect it to be accurate.How much do I have to spend to get a good test kit.$40 $60 I went as far as buying the cal meter.Wich was a waste of money since you can't leave the meter in your sump.I am upset that companys want the most amount of profit with the least amount of effort or accountability.Why is there no one out there who monitors what these companys make(a watch dog for the average reefer)I am wondering what kind of revenues this hobby generates.I know my self I have spent over 10 grand on this hobby and counting.I never spend less than $150 at the pet store.Yet I get bad advice,Somtimes bad service.I see alot of corals that are in bad shape.I hate when I but a product that doesn't work the way it is suppossed to work.I am fed up of getting screwed over and over again.For the amount of money I spend I expect to get better products and better results.

 

[RustySnail]

Salifert is currently labeling all of their products with an exp. date on the top of the box. If you have a kit that does not have an exp date stamp; it is likely an older kit (not sure how old tho). If you ask Habib (owner of Salifert) over on the Salifert forum he can tell you if the lot# is still a good kit, how old it likely is, and has sends replacements even if the kit is old (what great service). The rep on the Seachem forum will do the same upon request. Both of these companies mark their reagents with lot#'s so they can track product quality/viability. I wish Salifert provided reference standards; it would make self-testing/troubleshooting much easier.

 

[leebca]

The top of my Salifert box has a label that reads: "12-2009"

That number is not identified as being or meaning anything. Is that supposed to be the expiration date? The package insert says nothing about the meaning of that label.

You used the terms "stamp" and "label." The two aren't the same. Mine has a label.

Regarding lot numbers -- that is a code. That isn't the same as providing the user any info on the age or quality of the reagent.

Both Salifert and SeaChem are responsible organizations. I don't question that. I've been in contact with Habib. He's read at least part of this thread. There's been no offer to replace the product, although a part of his message to me didn't make any sense in the English language. I asked for clarification, but that was 4 days ago and no response since.

I hope it's clear that I am not down on any manufacturer. I just believe there is an order/priority of reliability on their test kit results. In this form of communication, the written word doesn't convey very well that I am not disgruntled, angry or pleased with anyone or any company.

(I perhaps don't use enough smiles).

 

[leebca]

steve the plumb, (is that the engineer's plumb or the fruit?)

We don't know how accurate the Salifert test kit is supposed to be, since they don't provide any information about this in their insert. They do indicate that ". . .Salifert's Coral Calcium. . .' gives good results. Maybe their test kit just gives 'good' results. Not very good or excellent, just good. I do know that I get consistent results from the same test kit.

I think our best bet for now (since there doesn't seem to be a consumer group interested in this matter --- maybe something we can get Ralph Nader interested in???) is this and other forums like this, and using the search engine therein.

I wanted very much for the calcium probe/meter to work, too. But after reading what was posted about it and Randy's article:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/rhf/index.php
I came to the conclusion that it wasn't going to be right for me, at this time.

I think that's about the best we can hope for today.

 

[steve the plumb]

considering the amount of money people spend on this hobby ,why is it that the consumer always has to try and police the vendor.Someone should take a pole just to see how much money every member of this site has spent.Never mind others who have no clue and have never been on this site and are into the hobby.This site has saved me alot of money and has helped me with info on corals and products.I am a simple plumber who is addicted to the hobby,but I expect when I buy something I don't have to buy it in triplicate because the first product and the second did not fullfill my needs.I hate wasting my money.This hobby is a money pit.If you want to stay in business you have to take care of the consumer.If I go to someones home and I can't fix the problem the proper way.I won't do the job.If I can't fix it I don't charge a dime.I call it a loss of my time but at least I don't screw my customer.There is alot of money to be made in this hobby or else this hobby wouldn't exist.Profit makes the world go around (to bad sad to say)I will try to purchase a hagen test kit and compare results.I will also ask my friend to bring his test kit over and see what that says.

 

[Hobster]

OK, FWIW, I did some tests the morning.

SG 1.025
Mg 1380 Salifert

Alk 2.98 meq/l Salifert

Ca 400 Salifert low res
Ca 420 Salifert high res

(batch 0502C, 0504B, 0503A) purchased 7/05

Ca 350 Seachem ( did twice)
Ca of Seachem reference 400 = 400.
Unknown date of kit 1 yr plus.

A Salifert test of the Seachem Ca reference was 500 so do not know if they are not compatable or this means something?

So based on this my Ca is somewhere between 350 and 420

I would have to lean towards the SeaChem results only because the reference agreed and not having a reference for Salifert. This assumes (as Randy noted) that the referece is also correct.

"So who ya gonna call"?

 

[steve the plumb]

I think I will buy a brand new seachem test kit

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I thought I had asked this question. Sorry for the other post. (I had anticipated the factor would be 1.3).

Sorry, the value is higher. I was thinking of going from Dowflake to Kent Turbo calcium or other "anhydrous" calcium chloride, which has some moisture in it despite the anhydrous claim. In that case, use 20% less. My mind is on my vacation.

 

[leebca]

Randy,

Jose sent me an e-mail that he has changed the calculator and it now contains the Ca of Dow Flake. I haven't check it out yet.

Thanks! (Don't worry about errors. They seem to be a part of how things go on this planet!)

 

[steve the plumb]

I bought a brand new Seachem test kit.I tested and got 465 ppm.I tested the cal ref that was supplied.The ref was 390 ppm I got 375-380 so I am off by a bit more than likely my fault.I tryed to get all bubbles out of sryinge.I tested with my old kit but I used the regeant #2 from my new kit because my old is kind od dried out.I got 365 ppm so I know the old test kit is finished I threw it away.I tested with the salifert(high res test) I got 540 ppm.I was told by the person at the store that she always gets a 100ppm differance with the salifert test kit.The seachem kit is $44.95 plus tax.The Salifert is $28 plus tax.That store was selling it for $40 plus tax (CDN FUNDS).I might have overpayed for the Seachem but I had no choice.I don't know wich of the 2 results are correct but I would guess the Seachem.

 

[leebca]

Did the store person offer any opinion on why the 100ppm difference?

I think it's now time to ask Salifert, why?

 

[MiddletonMark]

I believe Habib is on vacation, otherwise he'd be here probably giving a detailed explanation.

What you want to believe, that's each of our own choice.

But with him on vacation, we're just going to have to wait for him to chime in.