Salt water at elevation?

[PowermanKW]

I completely agree withthe above. My point is that while absolute saturation levels will be lower at altitude than SL, it is still more than enough for our aquariums.

Well crap.... not real sure how to take that. So looking at the link provided with the calculator from above, it tells me that at 26C/1800m my DO is 5 ppm. The calculator tells me that is 50% saturation. So 10ppm is 100% saturation.

An article from Advanced Aquarist says tide pool DO is 7.3-7.6 ppm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/7/aafeature2

So I was lead to belive that 100% saturation at altitude is still more than enough. Yet looking at the chart I'm only at 5 ppm. Yet 100% is 10 ppm.

So if SL saturation is in the 7s, and stress begins at 4 ppm, and death occures at 2 ppm.... then 5 ppm is just barely enough. Yet if I am saturating the water at alt/temp I can get to 10 ppm. Another article says that most aquariums are at 70% saturation.

http://www.algone.com/oxygen.php

So with my oversized skimmer and good circulation I can be at 7 ppm or better.... or going by the chart I'm at 5ppm.

Well now I am somewhat concerned. Not sure where I am at, or if indeed my fish are light headed like me.

 

[PowermanKW]

I've had my tank up and running for about 12 days now, I also put a different skimmer in my sump than the one I had in it back in MN. I was running a Nautilus TE (dont ever get one, they are horrid) but had an extra Turbofloater 1000 in the shop. So now the Turbofloater is skimming the aquarium, and since you mentioned it, I do notice a little less skimmate being produced, but the stuff that is being collected is a dark, thick almost gooey liquid. Back in MN (at 1,400 ft) I was using the same skimmer on a tub of LR I was cycling for some clients, and the skimmate wasn't nearly as dark, and I had the thing dialed way down on the outflow, to try and produce that dark stuff. But the water volume I am skimming now is a little bit more than what I had going on back there.

Interesting Powerman,....I will be keeping my eyes on that as things progress here.

In order to rule out differences in meters, I went as far as to buy the air meter from the company they were using. It read the same as the one I was borrowing.

 

[sbreefer]

Welcome. I am at 9000 feet. no problems. I can breathe too. Try riding your mountain bike at 10000...

 

[SPasse]

If you are doing fish only, you might as well be running 1.017 - 1.020.... easier on the fish, generally. Hypo would be down around 1.010 or so.... good for QT, but may or may not be good long term (years).

-Rob

Really?

I don't think that anything below natural specific gravity (~1.024) is good for the long term health of our critters.

Lots of good article on the subject, like this one: http://www.ronshimek.com/salinity_temperature.html#

Regards,

Scott

 

[rmougey]

Yes really.

Ron's article deals specifically with sessile invertebrates that occupy a specific niche, and corresponding ecosystem in which they thrive. Depending on where they have settled, the conditions my be fairly stable or volatile. Temperature may vary with season or cold upwellings, salinity may vary if located near a large freshwater inlet etc. Turbidity may be high or low.... but it certainly doesn't remain constant.

Fish are mobile, and as such, some may experience many more changes than most inverts found in our tank. I have had very long term success keeping animals in fish only aquariums below the norms of natural seawater. I'm not breeding, rearing fry or performing lab experiments, but rather keeping a fairly constant state that falls slightly below the norm, but well within the tolerated range.

I would not suggest that 1.018 would be a good range for most coral reef inverts, though some could certainly thrive in that range. I do suggest that fish do quite well at a lower salinity than NSW.

The article does point out that we attempt to keep many animals together that would never come in contact in nature. It's surprising that we have the success that we do mixing critters from different zones, regions and oceans. For the purist, that is simply not acceptable. For the general aquarist, sometimes it helps to buy the pretty purple one that the spouse likes even though you know that your Red Sea Regal would never encounter that black cap basslet.

-Rob

 

[SPasse]

Ron,

I respectfully disagree.

"œRon's article deals specifically with sessile invertebrates that occupy a specific niche, and corresponding ecosystem in which they thrive. Depending on where they have settled, the conditions may be fairly stable or volatile. Temperature may vary with season or cold upwellings, salinity may vary if located near a large freshwater inlet etc. Turbidity may be high or low.... but it certainly doesn't remain constant."

I and others maintain that protracted hyposalinity causes strain on the internal balances and osmotic processes of invertebrates and fish. We are talking about processes that can take some time (months/years) to manifest damage.

"œFish are mobile, and as such, some may experience many more changes than most inverts found in our tank. I have had very long term success keeping animals in fish only aquariums below the norms of natural seawater. I'm not breeding, rearing fry or performing lab experiments, but rather keeping a fairly constant state that falls slightly below the norm, but well within the tolerated range."

I guess I am a loss why keeping animals outside a range (on an ongoing basis) that they evolved in over eons would be beneficial.I.E. they are adapted to natural salinity levels.

"œI would not suggest that 1.018 would be a good range for most coral reef inverts, though some could certainly thrive in that range. I do suggest that fish do quite well at a lower salinity than NSW".

But again why would they do as well or better in this environment.

Another article on "œnatural salinity" http://www.reefs.org/library/article/bingman_toonen.html

The article does point out that we attempt to keep many animals together that would never come in contact in nature. It's surprising that we have the success that we do mixing critters from different zones, regions and oceans. For the purist, that is simply not acceptable. For the general aquarist, sometimes it helps to buy the pretty purple one that the spouse likes even though you know that your Red Sea Regal would never encounter that black cap basslet.

This is a discussion about the "œunderwater Bonsai gardens" vs. a biotype which is a different discussion.

Regards,

Scott

 

[rmougey]

Hey Scott....

It's Rob, not Ron by the way. We will agree to disagree. We keep many animals outside their natural habitat by the very nature of placing them in enclosed systems. I can't duplicate the depth, pressure, O2 saturation and other environmental factors either.

You are correct that some animals exhibit stress from long term hypo, but I wouldn't classify a salinity of 1.018 or higher as hypo-salinity.

-Rob

 

[68RUSTANG]

Hi everyone,

For the last few days my Lobophyllia has not been happy. After checking Alk,Ca,& Mg. I killed a few Aptasia that were around the coral. Finally I checked my salinity; somehow the tank got up to 1.033. It's quite large and the centerpiece of the tank.

The strange thing is that this was the only inhabitant that was showing signs of stress. I have a mixed reef with LPS,SPS,fish,inverts,etc.

 

[Beaner3]

2 months in at altitude and noticing no negligible effects of lower salinity, holding steady at 1.020, getting some growth again out of my rocks, especially the aptaisia, I think that stuff would do fine in regular fresh water, evaporation is the biggest problem to deal with right now, other than that, everything is dandy.

 

[taeto1]

I am at 9,500 feet, I finished setting up my 180 gallon reef tank, (or what i hope to be a reeftank) I have had a tank as long as i can remember but lived in Miami. i am having problem with my fish. I brought about 7 small fish to my tank after cycling it for about 3 months all but one died in the first 2 days. all with their mouths open. I have 2 overflows that create a lot of bubbles also have a skimmer for a 300 gallon tank. I am running a refugium sump. The only fish to survive was a Hippo Blue Tang and a red fire shrimp. Its been 2 months and the tang is eating fine but his color is light... Have checked all my water variables and everything is fine. Dont have how to calculate O2. my SG is at 1.22.
My Corals are doing fine have a maxima clam a couple of acros and some xenia and they are all doing well.
If you have any ideas please let me know I am looking to get more fish soon and want the tank to be ready.

Thanks again for your help