Samala Seahorse/Seagrass Copy

[CodyH]

*personal note to Sarah, I'd appreciate if you'd help me start this up as I know you are dying to get dwarves with your seagrasses again soon*

I'm planning a 10g that I would like to have as an imitation of Sarah's previous dwarf seahorse/seagrass tank. Rather than posting in the seahorse forum, I'm focusing first on the seagrasses. (FYI, I mean seagrass not macro, would rather not use any macroalgae with the dsh)
I've read 2 articles from Sarah (wetweb & reefkeeping) as well as the Grass Menagerie pages. Most of my references will come from there or use similar ideas. I also favor a lot of the photos/set-ups from the member halophila, so any help is appreciated.

The tank is a standard 10g (20x10x11H).
Substrates options:
The deepest I can go is 6inches of substrate with water height of 5 inches, but my preference would be 5inch substrate with 6 inches of water. I plan to use 1-2 inches of mud, 3-4 inches of fine silica sand, and topped with aragonite.
Could I have the bottom 3-4 inches mixed with silica and silty mud or is it best to have an all mud layer for root growth?

Lighting:
I am looking into 65w LOA fixtures (6500K color temp) and/or a 70w metal halide made for outdoor use (read: suitable in wet areas)
From what I've read, either should be fine.

Seagrasses: I would need shorter specimens. I would like to have 2 different kind, preferably thin bladed, like shoal or manatee grasses.
If I recall correctly, paddle grass stays short

Livestock:
The only inhabitants in the tank would be the red volcano shrimp, nassarius vibex snails, and dwarf seahorses.
This means large daily feedings of baby brine shrimp with an occasional algae wafer for the red shrimp.

I cycle my tanks with large raw white table shrimp. I plan to cycle thoroughly by burying pieces of the shrimp in the layers and then introducing the nassarius or whatever sand sifting invert i may need. Would this be a good idea to help 'age' the clean silica sand? I would also be using bottled bacteria rather than any rock.

 

[Samala]

Aw, what a flatterer! :wildone: I'm so glad you found the articles and my crazy weblog even remotely helpful.

Some quick thoughts:

If you're going for shoal grass (manatee will get really tall and I would avoid it) and the small paddle or star grasses (Halophila) you can get away with 4" of substrate. In fact, you could get away with 2" (possibly less if you look at halophila's posts) at the front of the glass and slope it up towards the back for the shoal grass.

I like to mix the bottom muddy layer with aragonite and then cap with clean aragonite to avoid having a silt storm. Thats very much what I did in my original ten gallon. I'm not sure if all-mud is better for the roots or not at the low reaches.

Both of these two species should do very well in this short-water column tank. You could also use Caulerpa prolifera for awhile, which grows very fast, looks great in a seagrass tank, and (bonus) is biotopically correct for H. zosterae. Once the seagrass is growing well, you could thin down the Caulerpa stand.

I'm a little concerned about the heat output from the chosen light options you've listed. I havent used the LOA, but test it to see what the heat output is like. You may need small muffin fans on it to keep the temperature at an appropriate level. You want that water in the 70 - 75F range. I'm sure you're aware, but just wanted to draw attention to that. I kept a 96W PC over the ten gallon and had great growth from the seagrasses, didnt run too hot as it had fans built in.

I havent had experience with the true Nassarius in seagrass tanks yet, hopefully someone will have some input for you there. David?

Otherwise, it sounds like a very good start. Have you given any thought to the water movement in the tank? (I'm guessing you've seen the water flow thread on the other board.) You may also want to consider how long you want to age the tank before adding the SH. I think I went three or four months with seagrass, inverts, pods and such before I added the fish.

>Sarah

 

[graveyardworm]

I'm a little concerned about the heat output from the chosen light options you've listed. I havent used the LOA, but test it to see what the heat output is like.

I've been running an LOA 65 watt fixture on my 10g QT for some time now. No hood to speak of, when I first did it the light was about 4 inches off the water and it did heat the tank up, I moved it up to abotu 8 inches and no more heat problems, if you were going to enclose it in a hood you will most likely need a fan in the hood.

I havent had experience with the true Nassarius in seagrass tanks yet, hopefully someone will have some input for you there. David?

I wouldnt exactly call my tank a seagrass tank yet with only one Thallasia rhizome, but so far the nassarius havent been a problem. We will soon find out more when the halophila, and halodule go in. This time the queen conch will be somewhere else. :wink:

 

[CodyH]

thanks you two. So Sarah, you know that since you've helped me now that you have to be my dealer of grass ( :bum: )? I'm gonna have to hit you up for some (only if/when you have any available for sale though )

I chose nassarius vibex (which i think are the little ones) b/c first they can survive panacur treatments, second they clean, and last b/c I have some in my 55 sh tank and they seem quite lazy so i figured i shouldn't worry about them toppeling the grass.

The metal halide I was considering is an outdoor one I found for patios at lowes/home depot that i was curious about. I posted in the light forum but haven't heard any thoughts yet. I would like to try it on my 55 if they do work but i thought it would be cool to use with grasses if need be. Otherwise I will go with LOA b/c i can afford them and they are 6500k.

Do you think the LOAs work fine that distance off the water? Any growth differences?

As for flow, I mentioned in that flow thread that I'm working on a diy canister filter. I think it should work fine. All I need is to connect a pump and it is good to go.

I can age the sand as long as necessary b/c i have a divided 10g for the dwarves to stay in till the grass haven is going well.

So for grass recommendations:
shoal grass and paddle/star grasses?
I'm all for a shallower bed.

What do you think of a mangrove added, whether it be placed on rigid tubing at the top or planted in the sand?
Would it be too much a nutrient sucker for the grasses to grow in that small of a tank or no?

 

[Samala]

The farther away the lights are from the plants the more the light will scatter and the less photosynthetically usable light will reach the plants. However, I think you'd be fine. Stable water temperature trumps higher light levels in this case IMO. The smaller grasses, in addition to their smaller substrate demands, also seem to get by on less light than say turtle grass (Thalassia).

I'm not sold that mangroves really reduce huge amounts of nutrients myself, and they are super picky about light. Of paramount concern.. they may react negatively to being placed close to your lights and getting too hot. The ones I tried long ago had exactly this response and I lost them. Someone with better mangrove experience will know better than I.. perhaps if Triterium is out there?

I wasnt aware N. vibex could survive panacur treatments. Interesting.

>Sarah

 

[CodyH]

I am under the impression that all nassarius snails survive fenbendazole/panacur. I've never seen posts mentioning the survivors to be species-specific.

The mangrove is for pure aesthetic reasons. I just like the idea of the dwarves hitching to the roots if I could arch them and having the tree above it. I didn't consider the lights being so close causing the leaves to shrivel. I know mangroves can be picky. I'll see if anyone chimes in on that. I don't plan on a hood per se for the lights. I'm making an adjustable thing with wood post. It would be open, just having the fixture attached to hold it sturdy.

I'll try and stop by the LFS to see if they have any mineral mud. I hear your personal preference is Carib-Sea mineral mud rather than the miracle mud from someone else. If not, I'll try collecting some from the marshes of South Georgia/Florida when I go on vacation next week.

If I can get the mud @ the LFS, the deep cycle starts today. :rollface:

 

[graveyardworm]

I have a single mangrove growing in a 5 gal acrylic tank. I'm using an LOA fixture with the clear plastic cover removed. The top most leaves are exactly 1 inch from the bulb with no burning/heat related issues. Be aware that once the mangroves roots grow enough in a small tank they have been known to crack the tank and break seals. This would probably take several years however. If you were to put it in the 10 gal you would probably need to consider two light setups as the light for the mangrove would probably need to start higher than would be good for the seagrass and would need to move up as the mangrove grows.

 

[CodyH]

Thanks, David.
I'm well aware of that root issue. I read a bit through many mangrove posts, including ones you made.

Looks like I have my work cut out for me.
I didn't get a chance to stop by the LFS, they closed early...