Sand is now my enemy...I am going BB and that is that

[wrassie86]

As someone that has had good luck with DSB and BB (and now running ssb) i feel for you guys ripping your DSB's out after a few years of running them and the hell that could be coming a month or two down the road if not done right.(dont for a minute think that rocks cant fill up)
I look at it this way.if you have a sand bed and its been in a year and your having problems it may not be the sand,altho if 3-5 years it may very well may be the sand or possible the rocks.
I dont promote either ,but after running BB for a few years,it comes with its own set of problems at first (sometimes big) and lessens as time go's by,but still i find it harder than running my current ssb.
Since my tank was set up for BB. i treat my ssb as such.nothings changed flow wise or skimmer wise.my cheato still has no growth.Instead of sucking a pile of dirt up once a week I now suck up the same dirty areas of sand once a month wash and return to the tank.
Since it is ssb i do stir areas of the sand and i feel that helps to feed the corals and releases anything that is trapped.
Theres more than one way to skin a cat,but dont jump into anything thinking it is a magic fix.all the methods work.but need to fully understood first.
As for me, i dont think i would ever go BB again,just because i dont care for the way it looked in "my" tank.I'd rather take the extra the step of cleaning and replacing.

 

[Serioussnaps]

The cleaning and replacing never works for me....when i say i want a clean tank i mean spotless. With the SSB no matter how much siphoning i did(i do weekly 9-12 G WC's on a 55 with 30 sump) there was still no way to keep waste from settling. I also turkey basted the rocks and SB every other day to put it into suspension...i spent hours upon hours working with it and the SSb is just out for me unless i have a 180 G plus tank. Only other way i would go is DSB.

I think BB will offer me more control over my tank. This is a major reason for doing it. I have never kept a DSB in tank, but have in a refugium. I think all have their place and if BB doesnt work over an extended period of time then a DSB will be implemented in refugia, but for now I look forward to seeing how BB goes.

On the other note....found the poor little perc curled up in the bottom of a maxi jet that i stuck on the bottom without the proper plastic cage thing and it sucked him in. Too bad there had to be a casualty.

Another note...because I am going to be so reliant on skimming to a degree...i ripped out my Chaeto that i had as well...it was collecting waste and wasnt growing much at all...but the main reason was little strands were clogging my skimmer and weakening its performance and functionality. I plan on replacing the chaeto with Xenia and using a Xenia scrubber along with the BB. Xenia sucks up nutrients greatly in my experience and as noted by another within the thread it is a great indicator of water quality or swings in the tank.

 

[Tritonian]

When you do the cooking, do you use RO or Salt water?

 

[wrassie86]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8080523#post8080523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
The cleaning and replacing never works for me....when i say i want a clean tank i mean spotless. With the SSB no matter how much siphoning i did(i do weekly 9-12 G WC's on a 55 with 30 sump) there was still no way to keep waste from settling. I also turkey basted the rocks and SB every other day to put it into suspension...i spent hours upon hours working with it and the SSb is just out for me unless i have a 180 G plus tank. Only other way i would go is DSB.

I think BB will offer me more control over my tank. This is a major reason for doing it. I have never kept a DSB in tank, but have in a refugium. I think all have their place and if BB doesnt work over an extended period of time then a DSB will be implemented in refugia, but for now I look forward to seeing how BB goes.


Another note...because I am going to be so reliant on skimming to a degree...i ripped out my Chaeto that i had as well...it was collecting waste and wasnt growing much at all...but the main reason was little strands were clogging my skimmer and weakening its performance and functionality. I plan on replacing the chaeto with Xenia and using a Xenia scrubber along with the BB. Xenia sucks up nutrients greatly in my experience and as noted by another within the thread it is a great indicator of water quality or swings in the tank.

I think that alot of smaller tanks are probly better off with no sand.But remember theres clean and to clean and comes with problems.just keep an eye on your nitrates and your RO filters fresh.the bottom of your tank can be a great indacater of what going on.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8079572#post8079572 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
I love watching all that DEITITRUS formerly known as DEITRUS flow out of the tank and into my skimmer....i

DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS!

Sorry, it was driving me nuts.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Yeah i know...its starting to become a game to me....see if you can spot all variations of the mispelled word dietirtrs

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8081971#post8081971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
Yeah i know...its starting to become a game to me....see if you can spot all variations of the mispelled word dietirtrs

Actinic is the other one that drives me nuts.

Everytime someone types "antic," the baby jesus cries.

 

[Amphiprion]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8081189#post8081189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS,
DETRITUS!

Sorry, it was driving me nuts.

At least you got that one off of your chest

 

[KenT]

I am in the process of removing the sand bed in my 535. Last yr. I had a hair algea outbreak that lasted 6 months. It cleared up for a few months and now I'm going through it again. It was so bad I ended up giving away most of my live rock and corals!!! Lets just say I lost thousands!!!

I new my sand bed had a lot of detritus in it, but I though it was supposed to. I came to my own conclusion that this amount could not be right. So I have been taking it out and have about 70lbs left to come out.

If my algea clears up I may keep the tank, otherwise I'm downsizing.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Get all the sand out and put some FLOW in there and watch it disappear....overskim the hell out of it

535G+taking sand out=pain in the ***^5power=well worth it in the long run

 

[Serioussnaps]

Cant believe you are getting algae problems in such a large tank...i can contribute the slight algal growth i have to such a small tank with a SSB.....

what kind of flow do you have on that 535???

 

[msn711]

When you say "overskim," do you mean a skimmer rated over and above your tank size, wet skimming as opposed to dry skimming, or both? Just curious.

 

[Serioussnaps]

A skimmer rated above your tank size and wet skimming, AKA both.

 

[fabbss]

You guys are turning me to a BB member. Question, can having even a small amount of sand cause a problem?

 

[Chicago]

how do you guys have3 confidence that without the sand or anything that you wont get a rock slide?

 

[Serioussnaps]

I am now in my second week of BB almost 3rd week. I did 2 WC's a week(1 6 g and 1 9g WC) and in the third week there is still waste and what not that is finding its way to the bottom. After a WC today and yesterday...there is significantly less waste and the tank looks cleaner. Dont forget to clean the bottom of your sump too!!!

The algae growth continued but i contribute it to the waste not being all the way out. Because the waste is still settling i have another Seio 620 on the way this week in addition to the mag 5 return, Tunze 6000 on controller and the Seio 620 i already have...nothing should settle on the bottom after this week. Skimmer has became even more important.

Another thing i had to do was because so many WC's i was pulling alot of clean water out but also alot of waste, detitrus etc...

I now just let all of it settle on the bottom of the bucket and dump what i can of clean water back in the sump....i was wasting alot of salt and clean water. Just kept siphoning out and putting clean water back in. The end result was the bottom of a 5g bucket witha mound of blackish brown debris....i was thoroughly satisfied.

Within the next month i expect my tank to be completely spotless.

I am also adding the TLF Phosban Reactor in the next couple of days when i get time to rig it up.

I will post pics of the newly BB tank in about 2-4 weeks...after i get the flow right and all of the waste that were remnants from the sand and LR.

LR can really hold some junk from sandbeds let me tell you...put the tunze on full blast 1850gph and blew the rocks around for an hour today and you wouldnt believe the junk that comes out.

WEll just some of my experiences in the transformation...so far I see alot of potential with BB. My paramaters are all in line and coralline is going crazy so a load of Millepora will be next on the list in the next couple of weeks.




I had a small amount of sand.....1" depth...collected detitrus like crazy....the amount of flow you need for the bb/berlin method makes sand a moot point...it will blow around if you are doing it right.

Also...i believe that either BB or DSB is the only 2 ways to go. DSB offers denitrification and break down of what it does accumulate....SSB will not do this.

BB doesnt allow accumulation but transport manually through WC's weekly and skimming. Thus no accumulation and no need for sand.

SSB is caught in between the two and lacks either of the benefits IMO....i believe i may attempt SSB in the future but only a VERY LARGE TANK where dilution would be my tactic with large volumes of water...but in a 55g.....dilution is not an option so i choose to aggressively export it rather than process it.





I have confidence in no rock slide because i spent hours carefully stacking so they are stuck in place...but nothing is 100% and murphy's law may smack me in the face down the road but I am willing to take the risk...there is always starboard but i decided not to go that route.

Chicago judging from your tank specs i would leave it the way it is unless you get some crazy epiphany that says this just isnt working how i want it to!!

 

[Chicago]

no .. i got rid of my fine sand and added some coarse to keep the rock from moving... i think in another year it will be cemented toegther by frags and coraline... but didnt wan to take that chance... i have some rather large pieces... some 25 lbs or more....

ican tell you this that with the coarse there is accumulatin of waste.. but i have a rather large sump ... no algea prblems.. any that there is is food for the tangs...

bummer is no bright white bottom...but then again when i had the fine sand it wasnt totaly white..

 

[Serioussnaps]

Coarser is much easier to vacuum but at the same time IME it collects the waste more so due to less surface area and more crevices. If it works for you dont change it.

Another thought...if i were to do it just right for sure i had ought to be cooking my rock...but i have a pair of percs and 2 croceas in there that i dont want to stress the hell out.



I think a great product coming out for BB'ers is the tunze nanostreams...can place them discretely all around the tank...i cant wait to get about 4 of them to add in with my big stream....this will be my method for the next couple of years...hopefully i wont have to move again and go through all fo this tinkering again.