scolley's Big Little Nano – yet another build thread

[scolley]

Care to share further specs about your lights? You're running 39 LED's in your hood. Any idea as to the total wattage there? What sort of PAR you're getting at the middle and bottom? And how high you have them turned up?

Well, other than the detail from this post, the fixture is about 125 watts. But a discussion of PAR requires a little qualification...

First, PAR does not accurately count all the light energy being cast from the Violets (aka UVs). So any PAR reading I have dramatically under represent the actual light. It's really much more.

Second, I don't run my lights at 100%, but I have taken 100% PAR readings, and mathematically adjusted them by Apogee (PAR meter maker) published LED reading correction percentages. So ignoring the aforementioned issue with the Violets, actual PAR values running everything at 100% would roughly be as follows:

Birdsnest top, back left corner - 633
Red Dragon, side - 541
Top right pocket - 368
Reverse Superman, top - 530
Cali Tort, middle pocket - 557
Meteor Shower, top - 341
Duncan, top - 454
Trumpet, purple & green, top - 487
Red & White brain, middle - 314
Bottom, front left corner - 82
Bottom, front middle - 117
Bottom, front right corner - 84
​

At present I'm running my three Mean Well ELN-60-48D drivers at the following percentages during the brightest part of the daily photoperiod. Royal Blue string - 90%. Violet string - 40%. White/Mix string - 70%.

I run a roughly 12 hour photoperiod - my Apex adjusts it through out the year, a bit longer in summer, and a bit shorter in winter. Only about 6.5 hours of the photoperiod is peak, with the lights running at the percentages mentioned above. The rest of the time is dimming up to peak, or dimming back down to off.

At the photoperiod peak, running the Mean Well drivers at the percentages I mentioned above, I think my PAR is roughly as follow.

Birdsnest top, back left corner - 539
Red Dragon, side - 462
Top right pocket - 327
Reverse Superman, top - 458
Cali Tort, middle pocket - 464
Meteor Shower, top - 301
Duncan, top - 383
Trumpet, purple & green, top - 418
Red & White brain, middle - 267
Bottom, front left corner - 48
Bottom, front middle - 97
Bottom, front right corner - 64
​

I used slightly different methodologies to arrive at those two sets of numbers, so a comparison between the two may look a little wonky. But IMO it's close enough for my purposes.

The fixture sits with the LEDs at roughly 14" from the water surface. And the light is not centered over the tank. When looking front to back, it sits back a few inches from center. That way most of the light energy is over the higher portions of the rocks that slope toward the back wall. The vast majority of the optics are 80%, though along the back I have some 60% and a 40%. The Violets and reds have no optics.

Hope that is what you were looking for.

 

[i_am_poor]

Thats it! Im ordering this tank from MD.

 

[scolley]

Thats it! Im ordering this tank from MD.

It's been a great little tank. But the stand is another story. It's fine now that I spent dozens and dozens of hours reinforcing, lightproofing, drilling holes, sanding, staining, polyurethaneing. And sanding. And sanding. And sanding.

You can read about that here.

Bottom line - great little tank. Stand can eventually be acceptable, but does NOT come that way.

 

[Mxx]

Extraordinarily helpful to say the least. Most everyone else I talked to has no idea what their PAR is, and/or don't have LED's, so their specs aren't applicable to designing LED systems. So with presumably the 'right' mix of LED colours, which you've come up with yourself through trial and error, it's easy enough to apply that to designing a new lighting rig. And despite that PAR is an incomplete measure, it's at least a helpful yardstick.

So with 125 watts of LED's, you're in any case getting PAR readings generally in the 300-500 range, as recommended. (Still quite a bit of power and light, I've switched my house to efficient LED bulbs and light my entire house for half that now!) And as a very rough rule of thumb, that's 3.7 LED watts per gallon, for a medium size tank and suspended fixture, which I'd searched high and low to find any such data.

Judging by your chosen intensities, we could change your LED mix to a few more royal blues, and a few less UV/violets to run each at 3/4 of capacity for each while achieving similar results. In retrospect, would you have designed it any other way? Or you're perfectly happy with using the 3 different drivers with those colours on each?

 

[scolley]

In retrospect, would you have designed it any other way?

Yes. More Royal Blue, less Violets. But that's no big deal to implement now... just swap RBs for Violets.

Or you're perfectly happy with using the 3 different drivers with those colours on each?

Having a driver for each individual color would be nice. But it's impractical and expensive. Careful mixing of colors on a driver works well. I suspected that I was going light on RBs and heavy on Violets all along, but had to try. Since I ALWAYS want RBs running, swapping some Violets for RBs is an easy change. It would just mean that I turn down my pure RB string a bit. And as for my White/Mixed color string, I'm perfectly happy with the color balance it provides (once RB and Violet are added), and have no interest in tweaking it.

So I guess the short answer to being happy with three drivers is... Sure. More is better, but IMO not worth the expense or complexity.

 

[scolley]

Algae Invasion!!!

My tank stays pretty algae free normally. But this past week cleaning the walls of the tank yielded sheets of the stuff. Usually there's just a tiny bit. This was a LOT. But it get's worse... !

Where my Red Dragon had grown up to be directly in front of my Vortech MP10 (maybe 1.5" away) it had some nasty algae. Not that harmless light green thread stuff. But that nasty, bristly dark green stuff. I've never seen that in any of my reef tanks, but from my freshwater planted experience, that looks like something to be feared! And it get's worse... !

One of my Birdsnests had growing into a neighboring Acro - right at the top of the tank in bright light - and were they touched, the dieback had BUBBLE ALGAE!

I added an Orchid Dottyback last week. And my Red Spot Cardinalfish died a few weeks ago. I don't think that's the problem. However, I did run out of Rod's Food (original blend) about 10 days ago. It's really almost all I feed. And I started using an equal portion of some pretty meaty looking food that we made at a local reef club meeting about a year or so ago. I haven't tested phosphate/nitrate, because I know it's there - the algae needs it to grow. Might measure low, but that does not mean it's not getting in the water column. It's gotta be the new food.

My local LFS has been out of Rod's for a while, so I will schlep up to a more distant store to get it today.

In the interim, I moved the Red Dragon to see if less current will allow it to die back naturally. And the two SPS with the bubble algae got pulled and hardcore trimmed. It was only happening where there was dieback where they were touching.

Neither of those two algaes have I ever seen in my tank. Well... I did see bubble on a frag that someone gave me a couple of years ago. It was spotted within a day or so, and the frag and the rock it was on were immediately trashed.

Just goes to show how algae lurks in the background, just waiting for some bad husbandry to give it a chance to flourish. Kinda like Ich I guess. All you need is a stressed fish to find out it's still there.

 

[iwishtofish]

Haha, I'd be freaking out if I didn't have any algae!

 

[scolley]

Haha, I'd be freaking out if I didn't have any algae!

It's typically pretty hard to find, except on my Vortech's - which are the perfect spot; high flow, high light.

But I think I've found a secondary cause. I think - but do not know - that my ATS light has been messed up for a few weeks. I took the ATS screen out to clean this weekend, and it had very, very little algae on it - and pale. So I turned the light on to check it, and it's messed up - LEDs out and/or flickering. Must have gotten wet. So I think my algae problem was a combination of an ATS on the fritz, plus a food that was likely high in nitrates/phosphates.

But I'm back on good old Rod's Food now, have more LEDs on order, and have a fresh batch of turbo snails in the tank. And - for the moment - we are back to algae being hard to find. Even on the Vortechs. :thumbsup:

 

[TheLub]

Hey Steve. Another TPT stalker here. I saw this last year when we were chatting about the Kahuna. Just caught up with your little project here again and its looking great!

 

[SantaMonica]

Tank pics looking very nice.

 

[scolley]

Hey Steve. Another TPT stalker here. I saw this last year when we were chatting about the Kahuna. Just caught up with your little project here again and its looking great!

Great! RC needs a little more quality TPT influence here IMO. Thanks for saying "hi"!

From my experience so far, reefers have a tendency to poo-poo FW Planted. But IMO being successful with a reef is easier. It's more complex (more balls you have to juggle, dropping none), but it's all better understood too. So if you are paying attention, it's easy to be successful.

As evidence, I can point to my own tank. Now that I've fixed the food and ATS LED problem, good luck finding nuisance algae in my tank. But saying the same thing in a planted tank can only happen with the right combination of knowledge, luck, and voodoo.

Tank pics looking very nice.

Thanks. Need to post some more recent ones.

The tank's got some bare spots now where my birdsnests grew too big. They grow so much faster than acros - they get big quickly. And when they get big, they look so nice it's hard to pull them. But weeding HAS to occur, and I've got a number of corals on a frag rack and the sand bed, about to go on sale.

 

[KafudaFish]

Hey there.

Your tank is looking great and I always enjoy reading all of your details about it.

I have been kicking the idea of starting a new tank next year and I really like the Mr. Aqua 33 like this one.

Would you buy it again? Anything you don’t like about it?

Also what about your gh overflow box? I have the toothless one and I have never been able to silence it which is annoying since it is in a family room. It looks like your box top is at the surface. Correct?

I realize that you are in the fun part of the tank, corals, but much of what you have done are things that I have considered.

Thanks.

 

[scolley]

Kudafish - new avatar! It's nice, but I was fond of the old one...

I have ZERO complaints about the Mr Aqua 33. Has been perfect. But the stand is another story. I've got a whole thread on the nightmare that was - a lot of it is included up front in this thread too. Can post a link if you need it.

I used to have the Glass Holes "con dentes" also. I loved the look, but opted for teeth this time. Noise has never been an issue for me - once I got the little air tube in the right place. Not sure what the issue is for you. I CAN say that mine makes zero noise, BUT I'm not running my return very fast. I'd guess 250 GPH or less. And no, the box top is above the surface, always totally dry.

If I had it all to do over again, I'd get one of these Ghost Overflows. AWESOME IMO. Be sure to check out the video. They just came out, and I'm kicking myself over not having one. So small and visually unobtrusive, with a Bean Animal build right in. I'm in lust.

 

[KafudaFish]

Thanks. Someone in the lounge found a bunch of these and named everyone. My hair looked like the picture so it fit. I do love my insect and will bring him back at some point.

That is good to know about the tank, I just wish there wasn't an additional $100 shipping charge.

I understand about the stand issue because I have a 37 and the stand is too short. It was built out of red oak by my FIL and is great otherwise. Maybe I can get him to build a 2 x 2 x 3 stand for this build.

Honestly I have no clue about my overflow box but it was so bad that I shut down the sump due to it. I will check the ghost link.

Thanks again and keep up the great work.

 

[KafudaFish]

Just in case you missed this about the ghost:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2332979

 

[scolley]

Yeah, saw that. But thanks! Great product. They are going to have a hard time keeping those in stock. I want one SO bad.

 

[scolley]

But here's something I AM excited about AND getting - SantaMonica's new SURF2 Algae Turf Scrubber!

It looks to have a bit less total algae growing area than my current scrubber. But I think the intensity of the light should over come that by producing nice dense mats.

I'm thrilled with the results of my current DIY scrubber, but it is a PITA own/operate. It's a waterfall matt, fed by a "Y" off my return. So the matt hangs above my sump, with water cascading down it all day. That's noisy. And it kicks up stupid amounts of humidity in my sump. And to accommodate the extra flow, my return pump is much larger than otherwise would be needed. Plus the area in my stand above my sump is small, and all the extra plumbing and hardware that it requires make my sump a really, really tight space.

With a minor modification the SURF2 should be able to float in a compartment of my sump, eliminating the noise, humidity, plumbing and hardware of my current setup. Plus I can reduce the size of my return (or throttle it back), which should reduce the time my chiller runs. And the huge reduction in the hardware/plumbing in my sump will mean I'll finally be able to maneuver in it. I can't wait! :thumbsup:

The only disadvantage I can see to replacing my current ATS with the SURF2 is that my current ATS contributes hugely to the oxygenation of my tank. But I'm hoping the aeration my skimmer provides - along with the overflow process - will be sufficient. No reason why it shouldn't be, it's apparently good enough for most of the people in this hobby.

 

[scolley]

Got my SURF2 Floating Surface Upflow Algae Scrubber the other day! I was impressed with the build, and was a cinch to set up in my sump. I had intended to shut my DIY ATS down, and see how long it took the SURF2 to pick up the slack. But that changed...

My skimmer stopped skimming completely. That's a bigger problem than it sounds, because my DIY ATS is in the same sump compartment as my skimmer, and has to be completely disassembled (scrubber and light) and removed before I can remove the skimmer for inspection. Once all that was done, fixing the skimmer was a piece of cake - the pump intake had become clogged. Easy fix. But I decided to NOT reassemble/reinstall my DIY ATS.

So all I've got for an ATS now is the new SURF2. Apparently in the best of conditions it takes a couple of weeks to be truly productive. Got my fingers crossed, as my PO4 and NO3 are going to start climbing as it breaks in and starts growing decent algae. Hoping for it to get productive quickly...

Also, am working on a detail review of the product to be posted elsewhere. Will post a link once it's out there. But it will likely not be until AFTER it's fully productive.

 

[skip0211]

Steve,

Keep posting your PO4 and NO3 readings, I'm going to be real interested..

 

[scolley]

When I installed the SURF2 a couple of days ago it was 0.05 ppm PO4, and < 0.2 ppm NO3. I feed so little that I don't expect that to rise quickly. But since it seems like it takes the SURF2 a couple of weeks (best case) to get really productive, I expect it will rise, then lower, over the next few weeks.

I'll be keeping a record for the full product review. But I AM concerned about how long it's going to take to get this thing productive. The website shows a fully productive unit in 14 days. But since the purchase Santa Monica has posted (and emailed purchasers) with info indicating that tanks with very low nutrients due to a nuisance algae problem can require steps to dim the light for a whole month to get the scrubber ready for the full light intensity. I guess that implies 30 days getting it ready, and another 14 becoming productive.

This is disconcerting because while this is a problem that can be caused by nuisance algae sucking up the nutrients, I don't see the difference between that and having an ATS. Which I did. And have low nutrients.

So needless to say... this has got my close attention.