ThrowinRoost89
New member
thats just retarded. its like running 87 pump gas in a funny car.
why would you do that?
SE or DE MH?
- Thread starter rnhrtfan
- Start date
thats just retarded. its like running 87 pump gas in a funny car.
why would you do that?
kdblove_99
New member
Hey Darg,
Just so you know Happy reefing hasnt been in business for years now.
BUt that is a wierd bulb. I have never seem a DE with way or even better PAR on a Electronic ballast than a HQI that is just odd.
But only on the EVC ballast. That almost seems llike an input error
Look at that thread i posted almost everyone that switched from SE to DE wishes they wouldnt have.
Just so you know Happy reefing hasnt been in business for years now.
BUt that is a wierd bulb. I have never seem a DE with way or even better PAR on a Electronic ballast than a HQI that is just odd.
But only on the EVC ballast. That almost seems llike an input error
Look at that thread i posted almost everyone that switched from SE to DE wishes they wouldnt have.
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kdblove_99
New member
I have a Question.
EVC electronic ballast seems to push the bulbs power better than any other electronic ballast why dont i ever hear much about them?
I always hear great things about icecap but almost every article i looked at on Sanjays site the icecap par is the worst.
EVC electronic ballast seems to push the bulbs power better than any other electronic ballast why dont i ever hear much about them?
I always hear great things about icecap but almost every article i looked at on Sanjays site the icecap par is the worst.
kdblove_99
New member
no idea. article was from 2005 i think so they are at least a few yrs old
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11112032#post11112032 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jman77
LOL , you just put your foot in your own mouth by posting those comparisons...
How can you compare a bulb that is running on a ballast that is burning up around 350 + watts (M80 AKA HQI) and is pushing more wattage to the bulb vs a E ballast or M58 that runs right around 250 watts. Why don't you run through the calculator and compare the DE Shielded bulb vs the SE non shielded on the SAME ballast and come back and post those numbers.
BTW, want to see some nice PPFD numbers from the calculator, put a XM 10K SE on a HQI ballast
"Sanjay with a preliminary PPFD of 95 if memory serves"
no , it actually tested lower than the P14K bulb ...
The 14K Iwasaki did not test lower below the 90's on the M80 ballast, THE SPEC BALLAST. I will post the link when I find it.
You are wanting to put DE bulbs on e-ballasts when the majority of times they are specd for and run the way they are supposed to on the HQI magnetic ballast.
Not every 250 watt DE bulb on M80 ballast runs at 350 watts. Most of them dont in fact. 300 - 320 watts is far more the norm than 350 watts. Again, almost every DE bulb is spec'd for the M80 ballast. The ballasts isnt tightly current limited like an electronic. The M80 essentially supplies what the bulb wants. 250 watts is the nominal rating. It doesnt mean it is only supposed to run on 250 watts and no more. If that was so, the bulb wouldnt be spec'd for the M80 ballast. DE's have higher internal pressures and are designed to run with higher wattages that can be supplied by the Magnetic HQI ballasts (SE's are not). Those are facts, check into them yourself because you clearly dont believe me. It also theoretically accounts for increased bulb life and slower loss of par over time.
Here is some more valid info for you. The M80 ballast is the ballast spec'd to run DE bulbs. Look at the ANSI ballasts spec for just about any DE bulb and it is M80. That is the magnetic HQI ballast. DE bulbs are NOT SE bulbs in a tube with double ended sockets. They are a different bulb with higher internal pressures designed to be driven with more current from the HQI ballast.
Those comparisons are valid. Anyone not running a 250 watt DE on a M80 ballast is NOT running the bulb on the spec ballast. You are limiting the bulbs output potential by running it on electronic ballasts and also very possibly shortening it's life. The DE bulb requires the extra juice to fire and burn correctly.
Consequently, you suggest running the SE bulbs on the M80 ballast when they are not designed or spec'd to run at the higher wattage. It signifigantly shortens the bulbs longevity with the exception of the HQI rated SE bulbs of which I believe there are two for the aquarium hobby in 250 watt category.
So, instead of saying, I am surprised by those numbers, you suggest, as ThrowinRoost89 hinted at, the equivalent of running a dragster on diesel and running a sedan on jet fuel.
Instead of just spouting off, you should really gets your info straight first. I ran the bulbs on the ballast that drove them to the highest PAR but was spec for the bulb. The numbers are valid. You just cant bring yourself to man up and admit it. Instead you have to make excuses and suggest scenarios that suit you.
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jman77
New member
"thats just retarded. its like running 87 pump gas in a funny car."
Because DE's do run on E-ballasts and SE do run on HQI Ballast. The ballast will make the output vary greatly. You can’t compare bulbs running them on different ballasts, it's impossible. To try to make a valid argument otherwise, well, is “retarded†…lol
Now if the question had been posted about DE HQI VS SE Eballast ...then go ahead and compare the bulbs on different ballast.
Yes M80 ballasts are speced to run DE's, but plenty of people of run DE's on E-ballast without any problems, or without any shorting of the life of the bulbs. There are also people that run SE’s on HQI ballast because of the extra juice they can get from the bulbs. DE’s do not necessarily mean running the bulbs on the M80 ballasts anymore with all the E-ballast options out there.
Because DE's do run on E-ballasts and SE do run on HQI Ballast. The ballast will make the output vary greatly. You can’t compare bulbs running them on different ballasts, it's impossible. To try to make a valid argument otherwise, well, is “retarded†…lol
Now if the question had been posted about DE HQI VS SE Eballast ...then go ahead and compare the bulbs on different ballast.
Yes M80 ballasts are speced to run DE's, but plenty of people of run DE's on E-ballast without any problems, or without any shorting of the life of the bulbs. There are also people that run SE’s on HQI ballast because of the extra juice they can get from the bulbs. DE’s do not necessarily mean running the bulbs on the M80 ballasts anymore with all the E-ballast options out there.
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http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/321Iwasaki-on_IC___PFO.jpg
Sorry, 93 not 95 on the HQI ballast.
This is a nice bulb, and very bright. I wouldnt be surprised if it Sanjay finds it testing higher after break-in when he posts the results from a complete test. Whatever the case, this is my perfect bulb.
Sorry, 93 not 95 on the HQI ballast.
This is a nice bulb, and very bright. I wouldnt be surprised if it Sanjay finds it testing higher after break-in when he posts the results from a complete test. Whatever the case, this is my perfect bulb.
DE's are spec'd to run on HQI magnetics. Thst people run them on Electronics doesnt matter, they are limiting the output by running inder spec. SE's are not designed to run on HQI magnetic ballasts. You would be padding the output numbers by running over spec at the expense of bulb life.
It is completely valid to test the bulbs on the ballasts that run them to the highest output but still are spec'd to run the bulbs.
You wouldnt test a road car on fuel that will pad it's speed and acceleration numbers but burn the engine up in 1/2 the time and then publish the numbers in Car and Driver. And, claim that this car is faster than some other car ("but the engine is going to burn up twice as fast because we ran it on a super octane fuel that it was not made to run on") That would not be valid. That is exactly what you are suggesting by claiming that the SE's should be tested on HQI magnetics.
kdblove_99,
EVC are sold by Ocean Encounters if I remember right. They must have the bulbs and ballasts made for them. I dont think the numbers are a misprint. You can do lots of things with electronics. They still sell the bulbs and the ballasts.
With Happy Reefing, I thought there was a retailer in Canada that still sold them. But it doesnt matter. There are bulbs that Sanjay has not tested as well. Not everything is tested by Sanjay. I just posted the numbers to make a simple point. Not to argue about what bulbs werent made any longer.
Blanket statements were made about SE having higher output than DE, period. I'm not arguing that. In general, they do. But they dont always have higher output. I never stated any different. I just was trying to show that SE does not have higher output over their DE counterparts in every case. Atleast not when the bulbs are all run within spec.
You talk about efficiency and inefficiency of running the DE bulbs on HQI ballasts. There is a trade off, always. If you are going to spend a little more in electricity but are not going to have to replace the bulbs as often, it's a trade off that may be worth it.
But then you state that your Radium is only 3 PPFD under the Phoenix on HQI. That means you must be running it on an HQI ballast. If my memory serves, the Radium is one of the bulbs that is actually an HQI rated SE. If so, then longevity isnt at issue. But it flies in the face of your efficiency argument. Why are you running it on an HQI ballast if one of your arguments against DE bulbs is that they need to be run on HQI magnetics to get the most PAR. You stated that it is inefficient compared to SE because you dont need all the wattage to get the PAR with SE.
How do you justify that argument if you run the Radium on an HQI magnetic?
EVC are sold by Ocean Encounters if I remember right. They must have the bulbs and ballasts made for them. I dont think the numbers are a misprint. You can do lots of things with electronics. They still sell the bulbs and the ballasts.
With Happy Reefing, I thought there was a retailer in Canada that still sold them. But it doesnt matter. There are bulbs that Sanjay has not tested as well. Not everything is tested by Sanjay. I just posted the numbers to make a simple point. Not to argue about what bulbs werent made any longer.
Blanket statements were made about SE having higher output than DE, period. I'm not arguing that. In general, they do. But they dont always have higher output. I never stated any different. I just was trying to show that SE does not have higher output over their DE counterparts in every case. Atleast not when the bulbs are all run within spec.
You talk about efficiency and inefficiency of running the DE bulbs on HQI ballasts. There is a trade off, always. If you are going to spend a little more in electricity but are not going to have to replace the bulbs as often, it's a trade off that may be worth it.
But then you state that your Radium is only 3 PPFD under the Phoenix on HQI. That means you must be running it on an HQI ballast. If my memory serves, the Radium is one of the bulbs that is actually an HQI rated SE. If so, then longevity isnt at issue. But it flies in the face of your efficiency argument. Why are you running it on an HQI ballast if one of your arguments against DE bulbs is that they need to be run on HQI magnetics to get the most PAR. You stated that it is inefficient compared to SE because you dont need all the wattage to get the PAR with SE.
How do you justify that argument if you run the Radium on an HQI magnetic?
kdblove_99
New member
I'm letting the thread started know that typically SE are more efficient than DE.
To me personally that is not how i make my decision i go for looks then Par. But i know some are concerned about there energy bill.
By the way there are quite a few people running SE on HQI look at the really long Reeflux thread. My LFS runs his XM 20k's on HQI.
yeah you might have to change bulbs earlier but is there actual facts on that?In theory yes.
My father in law has been running hamilton 10K's on his tank for almost 2 yrs now. He has crazy growth. So when should he change them? should he change them cause others say you should every 8-12months? I don't think so.
I know you go off paper more than actual experience, It seems most of the stuff you write is stuff you read and not what you have experienced!
To me personally that is not how i make my decision i go for looks then Par. But i know some are concerned about there energy bill.
By the way there are quite a few people running SE on HQI look at the really long Reeflux thread. My LFS runs his XM 20k's on HQI.
yeah you might have to change bulbs earlier but is there actual facts on that?In theory yes.
My father in law has been running hamilton 10K's on his tank for almost 2 yrs now. He has crazy growth. So when should he change them? should he change them cause others say you should every 8-12months? I don't think so.
I know you go off paper more than actual experience, It seems most of the stuff you write is stuff you read and not what you have experienced!
mile sq. reefer
New member
Can you feel the love. I just decided to check in and see how this battle was going. Ouch. Good luck resolving your differences.
kdblove_99
New member
Valid input< that was a good one. I commend you for not getting upset and can still tell some jokes.
Closer to 2 yrs for full on Reef.
Many, Many years in the hobby!
Looks like i have been a member here a good 10 months before you
Sorry for getting off track. Bottom line is I have tried both and i Prefer SE.
DarG does also have good points about DE.
Closer to 2 yrs for full on Reef.
Many, Many years in the hobby!
Looks like i have been a member here a good 10 months before you
Sorry for getting off track. Bottom line is I have tried both and i Prefer SE.
DarG does also have good points about DE.
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I started off with SE jumped onto the DE Fixture w/T5HO bandwagon,and switched back to
SE with T5 HO ,I just find there a better bulb with ease of replacement and better light coverage than the all in one fixture.
SO I would recommend SE with HO T5`s.
SE with T5 HO ,I just find there a better bulb with ease of replacement and better light coverage than the all in one fixture.
SO I would recommend SE with HO T5`s.
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