Seachem Salt.....

sangraal

New member
Ever since I started using seachem salt, I was having problems keeping Alk above 2.5 meq/l and Ca above 400.... inspite of Mg at 1500.... been adding it like crazy thinking it is the problem...

Now having read a long thread from someone on the zeovit forum I am thinking my test values are not true values. I haven't seen any ill effects yet, Good thing the salt got over, time to go back to TMPro.... Anyone else using seachem have issues?
 
i went from bags to the buckets and that is when i was having the problem also (2 buckets into the salt)




alkalinity has been 9kh on the last buckets tested and now 5kh

calcium usually around 400 this tested 350

magnesium usually btween 1200-1350 tested as 1020

i tested the water in 2 seperate 5 gallon containers and go the same reading but on the 2 nd contained the magnesium was 1050
 
Same here I just started using it also. I redid my rocks and ended up changing more than 50% of water. Alk was 9.9 and calcium was 410 after big water change.

Have yall who have used it noticed it harder to mix. I dont know if its something else but in my tank it seems like I can see small particles everywhere. I didnt let it mix for a whole night, could that be a problem.
 
well hope I dont get in trouble here but I read on the Zeovit site that they are also having huge issues with seachems salt. Something about the elevated borate I think that will acumilate in the tank and cuase the alk,ca and mag to drop off realy bad and cuase acros to die off. You might want to go there and read up on it some more.
 
which seachem salt you using the reef or marine version? Each version has different specs. for the different tanks.
 
sounds like

sounds like

i went from bags to the buckets and that is when i was having the problem also

Oceanic had the same issues, basically if I buy the 90g containers np, but if I siwtch to buckets then problems happen. I don't buy buckets of salt unless its IO anymore, but cause I love the high calc of Oceanic, I just buy the 90g, and add alk(seachem builder) seems to work for me. I know its not about Oceanic. I never tried Seachem, but it seems so many saly co's have issues keeping the ppms of necessary items in check. Only one I know of with nps is IO.

good luck
David
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7718973#post7718973 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mchava
well hope I dont get in trouble here but I read on the Zeovit site that they are also having huge issues with seachems salt. Something about the elevated borate I think that will acumilate in the tank and cuase the alk,ca and mag to drop off realy bad and cuase acros to die off. You might want to go there and read up on it some more.

That is what triggered my thread, The common consensus from the thread is that the elevated borate levels are showing wrong readings for alk thus an inline alk test value may actually be much higher, which is a big no-no for zeo tanks. Given the fact that the person who brought this out has earned high respect in the reefing community, I have no reason not to trust his judgement.
My guess is only zeo users are getting hit by this wrong test value, cause I have read here that many non zeo users run their tanks at 9-11 dkh without any ill effects, while a zeo tank on those levels would start to kill the corals.
I am also watching seachem's input on this, but in the mean time I wanted to see if any non-zeo long time seachem(reefsalt) users have the same issue.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7718624#post7718624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Milleme
Same here I just started using it also. I redid my rocks and ended up changing more than 50% of water. Alk was 9.9 and calcium was 410 after big water change.

Have yall who have used it noticed it harder to mix. I dont know if its something else but in my tank it seems like I can see small particles everywhere. I didnt let it mix for a whole night, could that be a problem.
I'm switchign from oceanic and I don't mix it that long.
mixes pretty clear so far.
My PH has been more stable since I started using it
 
(no fine particle and i use a eheim 1046 to mix my water)

now on the bad bucket it mixes very fast

and the good bucket it mixes very slowly
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7718973#post7718973 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mchava
well hope I dont get in trouble here but I read on the Zeovit site that they are also having huge issues with seachems salt. Something about the elevated borate I think that will acumilate in the tank and cuase the alk,ca and mag to drop off realy bad and cuase acros to die off. You might want to go there and read up on it some more.

I think you need to re-read that thread...there really is no feasible way for borate to accumulate over time and it has NOTHING to do with why the Kh and Mg were low. The problem with the levels being off was because last year they accidentally released a batch of bad salt which is a whole different issue and has been resolved. However, the salt does have elevated borate, but this is purposfully done by Seachem but is a bit too complicated for me to explain. Best to read about it in that thread.
 
For the record, I am one of the people who got a bad batch of salt...It reads low Kh (6.0ish dkh) and low Mag (1000ish) and low Ca as well. That was caused by a quality control issue last year and they were not able to effectively recall all their salt. If you test your salt and it is bad, they will ask you to send them a sample and if it indeed is bad, they will make it right.....
 
Could it be that the bad batch just triggered the problem that was waiting to happen? It is a well known fact that zeo tanks have K depletion issue, what else that we don't know is getting depeleted?

Has anyone who dosen't use zeo but is a longtime seachem user with SPS has any TN problems? Plesae speak up.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7727586#post7727586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sangraal
Could it be that the bad batch just triggered the problem that was waiting to happen? It is a well known fact that zeo tanks have K depletion issue, what else that we don't know is getting depeleted?

Has anyone who dosen't use zeo but is a longtime seachem user with SPS has any TN problems? Plesae speak up.

That is what everyone (including Seachem) is trying to figure out in that thread on the Zeovit boards. At this point it is just speculation as to what the cause for the TN events was.
 
This all sounds like a great reasons to dump hundreds on bottles of magic.
Making the tank less stable, more complicated, and more expense.

Like sangraal asked.
Has any non-zeo seachem users had any issues?
 
I don't know if the ZEOheads have forgotten or if they just don't want to face facts. Since the get-go there has always been a real risk of STN/RTN associated with using the system. It's great to be on the cutting edge I guess... pushing the envelope... but sometimes the envelope pushes back :rolleyes:
 
Hope this post helps and is ok by the moderators (if not please edit accordingly :))

After a long discussion on the zeovit thread, we have found the solution!

Now, people that do NOT run the zeovit system do not have to worry about this as much. Granted, if you are not running the zeovit system, but are still trying to maintain natural salt water (NSW) parameters, then you NEED to take this advice as well.

I will quote a few people:

Aged Salt said:
Thnx. Jeff, yes, according to Habib, the Salifert's KH test incorporates as it's total, both carbonate/bicarbonate alk.+ borate alk., therefore, the true useable alk. is minus the borate alk portion[~20% of the total].

To be honest, Nick, I have no way of proving elemental imbalance, but the mode of STN points one in that direction. However, if the real alk. with using SC salt then is <6, basal TN will result. Bob

gqjeff said:
I was running at 7 dKH. Bob, Mushur and myself talked about the borate % a few weeks back. We thought %20 but it was added to the dKH so I actually have lowered mine over the last few weeks and things have gotten worse. I thought 7 was actually 8.4 so I have been lowering it with worse results. I am going to raise it up to 9 or so over the next couple weeks and see if that makes a improvent. I beleive this may be the culprit unless seachem comes in and clarifies up what Habib stated...

Seachem said:
Natural seawater has a total alkalinity of about 2.5 meq/L, of which about 0.1 â€"œ 0.2 meq/L is from borate. It can be quite helpful though for pH control and Ca, Mg and carbonate solubility to have a higher borate content. This should not be at the expense of carbonate though. We recommend a total alkalinity of about 4 â€"œ 5 meq/L with a borate component of about 1.5 â€"œ 2.0 meq/L.

Aged Salt said:
Hi all, just a few coments & thnx. to Jim[SeaChem] for his posts thus far. With ZEOvit method, the dKH must be between 6 -8 & steady. Lower or higher than those values, eventually results in TN, in a oligotrophic environment. Most KH commericial tests only test carbonate alkalinity as the total, as most saltmixes do not contain appreciable quantities of boron in their make-up. The exception is SC's salt, comprising 3x's the NSW levels of boron.

If Salifert's KH test kit measures only carbonate alk., for instance, with a reading of dKH of 7.4, the real alkalinity would be over 8!! If, however, Salifert's tests borate in the total alk reading, then at dKH of 7.4, for instance, then the true carbonate alk. that our SPS corals actually utilize would be below 6!!.

Having said this, I personally do not think the TN's events are related to borate, as these were basal in nature, & IME, STN beginning at the base of a coral is from parameter or elemental imbalances. Jim, is it possible that when the SC formulation was changed &/or "bad batches"[parameter deficiencies] that trace elements supplements were altered in the make-up? Bob



Now based on the above info:

If you ARE running zeovit, or is you are NOT running zeovit but, trying to maintain alkalinity values that are close to NSW (6-8 dkH), THEN you must....

SUBTRACT 20% from the reading you are getting (this is only if you are using Salifert test kits, I am not sure if the Seachem test kits incorporate borate alkalinity).

For example;

You measure a dkH value of 8 on your Salifert test kit....In reality, you are ACTUALLY testing at 6.4 dkH

or

You measure a dkH value of 10 on your Salifert test kit....In reality, you are ACTUALLY testing at 8 dkH

So, in summary:

If you ARE doing 1 of the following:

1. Using Seachem salt and trying to maintain an alkalinity around NSW (6-8 dkH).
2. Using the zeovit method

THEN:

You MUST subtract 20% from your measured alkalinity values (if you are using Salifert test kits) to obtain the correct/true measured alkalinity value

If you ARE doing the following:

1. Just using the seachem salt mix and NOT trying to maintain NSW parameters or NOT using the zeovit method

THEN

You do NOT need to worry AT ALL about the borate alkalinity.


I hope this makes sense, if not please let me know so I can clarify.

Again, the ONLY test kit I know for SURE takes into account borate alkalinity is Salifert. IF you are using another brand of test kit, I would strongly urge you to ask the company if the alkalinity test kit takes into account borate alkalinity and adjust accordingly.

I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion. If it is still unclear please let me know and I will clarify.

Nick
 
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