SEASL By-laws change request

I started this whole thing at 7:12 Tuesday morning and so far the only response I have gotten is that the idea has merit and that the board is thinking about it. I think it's about time for an answer one way or the other.

Delaying the amount of available time only makes it harder to have everything taken care of by nomination and vote time.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6808090#post6808090 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zt444a
I will second your proposal Greg, as I completely agree with you. If we cannot amend the by-laws, then might I suggest sending a list of proposed nominees to someone who will be attending the monthly meeting?

I might go, as I'd like to learn more about fragging, but the nomination thing is a seperate issue entirely.
Click to expand...

In another thread I offered to nominate anyone who cannot attend the meeting and I am repeating the offer. It is puzzling, however, that no one has taken me up on the offer.
 
To be fair....I don't think most of us know what positions we are nominating for. I could not find on the SEASL homepage what offices were being vacated. Is this information listed somewhere and I missed it?
 
Gary,

What is puzzling is why has there been no response whatsoever from ANY member of the board? I have seen two members lurking...why no response?

Maybe instead of lurking, those two members could have been discussing what has been proposed and making this thing happen. It only takes two members of the executive committee to have a quorum. Why don't they want to address the members?

We want the ability to do the nominating on our own from wherever. That way, if the club decides to hold the nomination meeting at a questionable site, members who care not to attend will still be able to exercise the rights of a member.

You fail to see the point here. You SHOULDN'T have to nominate anyone except for someone you want to nominate. We can do the nominating for ourselves.
 
All,
You are going to have to have patience on this by-law request. It is not realistic to post or email a demand to change an organizationââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s rules and expect an immediate change, especially for the specific change that is being proposed. As the by-laws stand, they canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t be changed without the proposal being presented at a meeting.

No single officer can act unilaterally on such a major issue. The officers have to work together to provide a quality response. All three have very full personal and professional lives; this means it can take a couple days to finalize an issue. I know this first hand, and I never had to deal with such a controversial issue. Allow them some time to properly set the stage for making a by-law change. Heck, they just finished sending thank you notes to the contributors of last monthââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s auction.

I also ask that you don't assume the worst from these people and don't read any negative intentions into their responses. It is too easy to misread a comment that had no intentional negative intent. These are truly caring people who want to do a good job. Every group could use ideas to help it cope with growth, but couldn't the ideas be presented a little more positively?

I have been left wondering about a couple things lately. Are those who is being so critical of SEASL actually active members? Maybe, but I doubt it. Also, SEASL is just a clubââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Âit is just for fun, canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t we keep it that way? Change can be made in a positive and fun way.

There also seems to be the assumption that everyone who is a SEASL member is a regular RC visitor, and that just because a few people on RC are vocal with an opinion that they are speaking for the entire membership. Based on my knowledge of the members, neither of those assumptions is true.

There was a very insightful comment that was made in this forum last week. The person basically observed that this forum works well for local people who prefer to communicate and share hobby information via the Internet. That person also noted that SEASL is an organization founded on the basis of doing the same thing but in a face-to-face setting. (Honestly, that is my personal preference.) This forum and SEASL were structured to serve people in the same hobby, but who prefer different methods of interaction.

The members who approved the by-laws, with the intention of encouraging attendance to make officer nominations, did so unanimously in November of 2005. That wasn't so long ago. So, letââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s allow the executive officers proceed, according to the constraints of the by-laws, and with a little encouragement on our part. Remember the more time they are distracted with non-program issues, the less time they have to more forward with some of the great ideas that have been presented.

Peace,

Jim Craig
 
Jim,

I have been an active member. Just went to the auction.

As far as being critical goes, I emailed a suggestion. Got no response but did see the "suggestion box" get unstuck 3 hours later.

As far as any other questions or comments, feel free to ask. This issue should not be laid to rest until it has been voted on.

Someone told me that they were told that only 13 people protested the meeting being held at Nics. I guess the opinions of 13 members don't matter to the board. What a shame.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6812655#post6812655 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capncapo
Gary,
We want the ability to do the nominating on our own from wherever. That way, if the club decides to hold the nomination meeting at a questionable site, members who care not to attend will still be able to exercise the rights of a member.

You fail to see the point here. You SHOULDN'T have to nominate anyone except for someone you want to nominate. We can do the nominating for ourselves.
Click to expand...

From the SEASL Website
Paragraph 4: Before the election of officers, nominations for each position shall occur at the previous monthly meeting in March. Members need not be present to be nominated or elected.

Paragraph 5: All members of the Association shall have the right to nominate candidates from the floor at the monthly meeting preceding the yearly elections in April.

It is my interpretation of Paragraph 5 that you can make your nominations before the election is held at the April meeting. If this issue is all about not attending the March meeting for moral reasons then just do your nominating in April.

As for who is up for election, there will be three elections held, one for an executive officer position, then Secretary, and Treasurer.
 
Jim, very excellent post. As usual, you are right on most points. However, I would like to express a few thoughts regarding issues you raised in your post. Nothing negative is being thought of the officers yet, but how much does it take for one who is lurking to post something to the effect of "We will discuss and get back with the forum here". At least then people know the message has been received.

I think asking if the more critical are real active members, well you answer your own question. They probably arent for the very reason they are looking for change. Their passion is real, the participation under the current set up is probably lacking for that very reason.

And lastly, this wouldnt even be an issue if when it was first dicussed to have a meeting at a location many here object to it was addressed and not, as many here feel, rammed down out throat with a "this is the way it is and thats final". I dont think there could be a more controversial place in St Louis to hold a meeting, except maybe Red Lobster! And having it the month of nominations is just fuel for conspiricy theories.

I support SEASL and understand the process and am patient, but I will not support a business that is less than even marginal IMO

Clark Creighton
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6813050#post6813050 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Saltgills
I have been left wondering about a couple things lately. Are those who is being so critical of SEASL actually active members? Maybe, but I doubt it.
Jim Craig
Click to expand...


Good points Jim, but the above statement does make it sound like there is the opinion that SEASL is not the membership but the board members themselves. I don't get that opinion from the people who are active on RC. Is that the opinion of the current board? That they are SEASL? If so what are the rest of us?

I know we all want the same thing...or at least I feel we do. We want a more active and represented club. In the past year I have seen no notifications of any issues, not asked to vote on anything, not seen on the homepage anything that requires the members to do anything other than attend the functions presented to us. We were asked to volunteer to be liasons with the LFS's in the area, but have not seen the outcome of that. Have I missed something? At what point do the members of SEASL give input on anything? When it comes to a boiling point as it appears to be now? I have no beef with the current board and am thankful they are giving their time for the cause, but the cause is not theirs alone, it belongs to all members.
 
I dont think there could be a more controversial place in St Louis to hold a meeting, except maybe Red Lobster!.
PT's and any Catholic Church(for the most part)
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2005_01_06/2005_03_19_Townsend_AbusivePriests.htm
I vote for PT's-at least you know what you are getting into-dollar in dollar out-great for UV exposure also-SEASL shouldnt get into glasshouses-jmho We have had meetings at churches? If I join and I am an athiest will you hold a seperate by law meetings for me? I am not but it is always possible-God Bless America!
 
Jack,
At the very least I have seen email requests and posts asking people to host two separate tank tours not to mention to help organize the summer picnic. The responses were very "light." That tends to send a message that when asked, people don't want to be very active. Sad, but not unusual in many organizations. It goes with the territory. It is frustrating to club organizers when people don't respond, then later criticize for not being asked. Know what I mean?

About your LFS liaison question, an email was sent to everyone who asked to be a liaison in order to confirm his or her request. That's done.

Jim Craig
 
But I've been to Kevins and won't be able to attend. That means I can't vote. There is something wrong here.
 
Jim, can you forward those e-mail requests to me, I don't delete anything from my e-mail except spam and I do get seasl frag swap addition notifications, so I know the system has me loaded into it.

My point about the lfs liason is the membership has no idea who the liason is for each store. The home page doesn't even list what chairs nominations are being accepted. I can assure you if no one knows what is going on, no one is going to participate.

The comment above about having the meeting at Nic's place shoved down our throat is dead on. That one issue is causing the others to become issues. There is no need in it, a little discussion from the elected board could have prevented it. What does it take to get the current board to participate here? We cannot rely on the seasl homepage for anything but a menu when input from everyone needed.
 
Jack,

In an effort to provide some comfort here, I'll respond to all your questions. Then I am going to bed.

I don't keep all my emails, so someone else will have to help you there. The frag swap notifications are not the same as the SEASL email list. So, it could be possible you are not subscribed to the SEASL email list. PM me your user name and I'll check for you.

The LFS liaisons are listed with each store on the SEASL web site.

I didn't take the SEASL announcement of the March meetings as being shoved down anyoneââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s throat. But, if you or anyone did, I won't argue it. Everyone has their own perception. I took from the announcement that the decision was made to have the meeting at Nic's for the exact reasons stated in the announcement. "We have chosen to visit Nicââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s home to help diversify the content of our meetings. Nic will discuss the fragging & growing of zoanthids & ricordea. He will also share his experiences on operating a small coral farm. (I see that statement as being VERY "interesting".) We welcome the opportunity to learn about coral farming on a small scale."

Maybe SEASL executive officers are a little reluctant to respond here because their seems to be no shortage of flames. That's why I rarely post.

Sorry you don't like the SEASL home page. But isn't a home page suppose to me a menu of information? If you or anyone wants to make input, the page has a "contact us" and the officer email addresses for that purpose.

Hope that this has been helpful. Now I really am going to bed--smile.

Jim Craig
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6813050#post6813050 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Saltgills
I have been left wondering about a couple things lately. Are those who is being so critical of SEASL actually active members? Maybe, but I doubt it. Also, SEASL is just a clubââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Âit is just for fun, canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t we keep it that way? Change can be made in a positive and fun way.

Peace,

Jim Craig
Click to expand...

whats there to wonder Jim, I already said I gave up on SEASL and didn't renew. sorry not active for that said reason not "fun" anymore. At the time seemed like all the events were mapped out already and no suggestion box. Well I finally got fed up enough to say something in a thread which I found out I am not the only one with these feelings. Well there is only one SEASL and I would like to see as you say a breath of fresh air. I already said I plan on paying my dues so my voice can be heard or at least my vote counted. there no more wondering anymore. Everyone else putting their $.02 in is probably a member.

I really like capos idea because the zilla just doesn't interest me anymore unless there is something new you guys would like to mention. sorry for the personal comment but this is the reason why I would like to see the voting electronically.

Thanks for the replies Jim it seems you are the spokesmen for SEASL maybe you should be a Laison for the Excutive officers and this board. :thumbsup: Unless do you plan on running again?

Thanks
Dennis
 
Well said Dennis...I honestly do think this should be fun and not controversial, and hopefully the officers will chose to address this forum, where a lot of the activity of this club begins.

Jim...I don't completely disagree with you and respect your speaking for the officers who choose to remain silent. Do you really think they are that worried about being flamed here as opposed to in person at a meeting?

If this is our mission statement...we are getting closer and dialog is needed but we also need to pay attention to ethical and moral issues within the community.

Mission Statement

We are a group of enthusiasts who come together to share our knowledge and learn from others about our saltwater aquarium hobby. The purpose of SEASL is to promote responsible ornamental marine fish and reef-keeping husbandry practices among hobbyists in the St. Louis area. To achieve this goal, we meet to share our knowledge, host local and nationally known guest speakers, organize field trips, and engage in group discussions. We welcome guests and encourage new members. Please join us for our next meeting.
 
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