Seio Multi Controllers
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orientalexpress
New member
what good about tunze is they're gave u a warning sound if they're don't start back up.i don't know about seio tho.gl 
MorandiWine
Premium Member
It says in the instructions that they are not designed for use as a wave maker and not to be alturnately turned on and off.
'
It all depends on your controller settings. Interval 2 is supposed to be the most "friendly" to the pumps (longer duration between eventually needed pump cleanings). The other settings will stop the pumps, if memory serves (not to mention if you hit the "feed" button
).With no wave making capabilities, this seems like a lot of money for a "work around". TAAM wants you to spend more money for a product that enables them to keep producing a powerhead that will not stop and then start reliably. If they had built in the alternating powerhead option, then I could see $130-$170, as it would truly be a multi-controller. I can't wait to drop mine (SEIO's) and go with a CL (would go Tunze, but after having the 1500's take up so much room and just look ugly, I decided to go PH'less.)
Travis
Travis
badpacket
Premium Member
So, are you actually complaining because of the controller or because you just dislike Seios now? Seriously though, what other inexpensive broadstream powerheads are out there, with a moderately priced controller that can do what you want?
I know Tunze has a $60 controller which will operate 2 Tunze Streams. Add on 2 x $137 and for $340 you can have what you want (fishsupply prices).
Or take 2 x $52 Seio 1500 and $139 for a controller which offers most but not truely independent control, and for $240 you have something close to the Tunze.
So, in the real world, having neither pump style, one has to decide if they want to spend the additional 30%-$100 and go Tunze.
Some will, others won't
On the other hand, for many who do have some Seio's, the option you seem to suggest is to dump the Seio's and spend the $340 minus recouped Seio costs and switch over entirely.
Assuming ~35-40 recouped per Seio, they would be looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $260-280 to make that change.
$260-280 seems like a lot of money to spend to avoid a cheap 'work around' as you say, for that extra control.
Not everyone drives a Lexus or Infiniti simply because the Honda or Toyota works well enough for them. People with $$ or the inclination will probably spend the extra is all.
I know Tunze has a $60 controller which will operate 2 Tunze Streams. Add on 2 x $137 and for $340 you can have what you want (fishsupply prices).
Or take 2 x $52 Seio 1500 and $139 for a controller which offers most but not truely independent control, and for $240 you have something close to the Tunze.
So, in the real world, having neither pump style, one has to decide if they want to spend the additional 30%-$100 and go Tunze.
Some will, others won't
On the other hand, for many who do have some Seio's, the option you seem to suggest is to dump the Seio's and spend the $340 minus recouped Seio costs and switch over entirely.
Assuming ~35-40 recouped per Seio, they would be looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $260-280 to make that change.
$260-280 seems like a lot of money to spend to avoid a cheap 'work around' as you say, for that extra control.
Not everyone drives a Lexus or Infiniti simply because the Honda or Toyota works well enough for them. People with $$ or the inclination will probably spend the extra is all.
Whoa, Cowboy! Why do you think I bought the SEIO's in the first place? Where did I suggest that everyone switch to Tunze? I was talking about what I was going to do, not what everyone should do. I was trying to impart that the controller's purpose seems to be to prevent the startup issues as much as it is to provide wave making.
If they (TAAM) were really in the business to sell more and more equipment every year (isn't that what capitalism is about?), then they would have spent some research and development time into preventing the startup issues, made the controller alternate between powerheads (how hard could that have been) and then they could have sold thousands upon thousands of units and greatly improved their shaky image at maybe only slightly more than what the costs are now. Instead they offer us this, almost saying "We know we haven't resolved the original startup issues, but if you buy this limited controller you can forget that we haven't spent one dime from our profits to make the initial product perform properly." It had to take less time and money to straighten out those issues than to make this controller.
Think about how many people that can afford to buy the Tunze and do, but would buy the SEIO's if they didn't have reputation for high maintenance. I realize there's a trade off for cost/reliabilty, and I dont think that Tunze are a fair price for the difference, but because I live in a rural area storms often interupt power (doesn't go out for long but blinks) the SEIO's cut off and rarely start back up even if they have just had a vinegar bath. For that reason, the controller would be of little use to me since the power isn't scaled down to keep the impellar continuously running, the power is off and when it comes back on the controller is on true but the SEIO's wouldnt be.
If they (TAAM) were really in the business to sell more and more equipment every year (isn't that what capitalism is about?), then they would have spent some research and development time into preventing the startup issues, made the controller alternate between powerheads (how hard could that have been) and then they could have sold thousands upon thousands of units and greatly improved their shaky image at maybe only slightly more than what the costs are now. Instead they offer us this, almost saying "We know we haven't resolved the original startup issues, but if you buy this limited controller you can forget that we haven't spent one dime from our profits to make the initial product perform properly." It had to take less time and money to straighten out those issues than to make this controller.
Think about how many people that can afford to buy the Tunze and do, but would buy the SEIO's if they didn't have reputation for high maintenance. I realize there's a trade off for cost/reliabilty, and I dont think that Tunze are a fair price for the difference, but because I live in a rural area storms often interupt power (doesn't go out for long but blinks) the SEIO's cut off and rarely start back up even if they have just had a vinegar bath. For that reason, the controller would be of little use to me since the power isn't scaled down to keep the impellar continuously running, the power is off and when it comes back on the controller is on true but the SEIO's wouldnt be.
seattlerob
New member
I believe the startup issues that come with seio pumps is due to the fact they use AC power. Maxijets use AC power as well. I believe the Tunzes use DC power. DC power will always turn the motor in the same direction, whereas AC power the motor will spin in different direction potentially.
With a stock Maxijet, the direction of spin is not important, since the impeller is not directional. With the Seios (and modded maxijets), the direction of spin is important, as spinning in the wrong direction would cause reverse flow. This is why both the seios and modded maxijets make some noise on startup (motor starts spinning the wrong direction, but gets corrected by some sort of stopper).
IMO, in order for TAAM to have prevented the startup issue, they should have gone the DC route. I'm not sure what additional cost is involved with converting AC to DC, etc, but I assume it is more expensive (thus the extra cost of the tunzes).
FWIW, even though the seio controller does not alternate between the 2 powerheads, IMO it does accomplish creating random flow...albeit probably not as random as if it alternated. This can be viewed by using the venturi to inject air. You can see the flow is more random using the seio controller than without. In this regards, I believe the seio controller has benefit inline with its cost.
BTW, contrary to what has been posted, the seio controller box indicates it ramps power to the PHs from 50% to 100%, not from 30% to 100% as previously discussed in various threads.
Also, my experience with the seio pumps is cleaning requires a bit more than just a vinegar bath. The rod that the impeller spins on seems to build up calcium easily, and eventually the impeller will not spin freely. When I clean my seios, I do the vinegar bath, but also have to physically remove the impeller from the plastic rod & clean both until the impeller spins freely. The plastic rod design (and the tight fit between the impeller and rod) seems to cause more trouble in this regard compared to the stainless steel rod I have in my modded maxijets. If your seio does not startup at all after a power off, I would look at the impeller/rod assembly first.
hth,
rob
With a stock Maxijet, the direction of spin is not important, since the impeller is not directional. With the Seios (and modded maxijets), the direction of spin is important, as spinning in the wrong direction would cause reverse flow. This is why both the seios and modded maxijets make some noise on startup (motor starts spinning the wrong direction, but gets corrected by some sort of stopper).
IMO, in order for TAAM to have prevented the startup issue, they should have gone the DC route. I'm not sure what additional cost is involved with converting AC to DC, etc, but I assume it is more expensive (thus the extra cost of the tunzes).
FWIW, even though the seio controller does not alternate between the 2 powerheads, IMO it does accomplish creating random flow...albeit probably not as random as if it alternated. This can be viewed by using the venturi to inject air. You can see the flow is more random using the seio controller than without. In this regards, I believe the seio controller has benefit inline with its cost.
BTW, contrary to what has been posted, the seio controller box indicates it ramps power to the PHs from 50% to 100%, not from 30% to 100% as previously discussed in various threads.
Also, my experience with the seio pumps is cleaning requires a bit more than just a vinegar bath. The rod that the impeller spins on seems to build up calcium easily, and eventually the impeller will not spin freely. When I clean my seios, I do the vinegar bath, but also have to physically remove the impeller from the plastic rod & clean both until the impeller spins freely. The plastic rod design (and the tight fit between the impeller and rod) seems to cause more trouble in this regard compared to the stainless steel rod I have in my modded maxijets. If your seio does not startup at all after a power off, I would look at the impeller/rod assembly first.
hth,
rob
I believe you are 100% correct. The shaft is the reason for the startup issues. They are seized into the impellar assembly most everytime I do a cleaning. BTW, I do clean all the parts thoroughly after the vinegar bath. I didn't include that because I had already said so much.
Maybe in my first post I shouldn't have said "no wave making capablilites", and rather said "lacking true wave making capabilities". I am not disputing that the device works as advertised, however for the price, how hard would it to have been to add the alternating option, which would have been exactly what a commercial wave maker does? Otherwise, it is just a timer with scaled power to prevent the shaft from seizing in the impellar for around $150.
I am not trying to argue with anyone as I can tell this subject hits a nerve, just wanted to state my opinion and voice my frustrations. I feel that some companies nearly price me out of the hobby, while others offer a product that gives me promise at cost I can afford, only to let me down with the results. Caught between a rock and a hard place like most other consumers in my income braket.
Maybe in my first post I shouldn't have said "no wave making capablilites", and rather said "lacking true wave making capabilities". I am not disputing that the device works as advertised, however for the price, how hard would it to have been to add the alternating option, which would have been exactly what a commercial wave maker does? Otherwise, it is just a timer with scaled power to prevent the shaft from seizing in the impellar for around $150.
I am not trying to argue with anyone as I can tell this subject hits a nerve, just wanted to state my opinion and voice my frustrations. I feel that some companies nearly price me out of the hobby, while others offer a product that gives me promise at cost I can afford, only to let me down with the results. Caught between a rock and a hard place like most other consumers in my income braket.
3 things I can tell right off that are contributing to the startup and perfromance problems for the SEIOs.
1. Not enough inlet area. Their inlet slots are ridiculously small and far too few. Having so few and so mall of an inlet area will less the amount of water the impeller and utilize to start up properly not too mention it would have to work THAT much harder to suck ineven more water through the few slots that are there. Very bad design on the shroud IMO. I bet if someone was enterprising enough with a SEIO pump can dremel out the inlet slots so there are more of them or make them larger to increase efficiency.
2. The center rod as mentioned by others above is TOO much of a perfect fit through the magnet. A slight calcium buildup and BAM you're stuck. One might have better luck replacing that with a slightly smaller stainless steel or carbon fiber rod.
3. Instead of using a propeller to produce flow, TAAM opted to use a fancy impeller which isn't exactly as efficient for pushing water. The propeller would enable the impeller to generate a much stronger suction force and generate much more and better flow as well.
I am curious to see how long a SEIO pump motor will last given the power-ramp ups and downs.
D.
1. Not enough inlet area. Their inlet slots are ridiculously small and far too few. Having so few and so mall of an inlet area will less the amount of water the impeller and utilize to start up properly not too mention it would have to work THAT much harder to suck ineven more water through the few slots that are there. Very bad design on the shroud IMO. I bet if someone was enterprising enough with a SEIO pump can dremel out the inlet slots so there are more of them or make them larger to increase efficiency.
2. The center rod as mentioned by others above is TOO much of a perfect fit through the magnet. A slight calcium buildup and BAM you're stuck. One might have better luck replacing that with a slightly smaller stainless steel or carbon fiber rod.
3. Instead of using a propeller to produce flow, TAAM opted to use a fancy impeller which isn't exactly as efficient for pushing water. The propeller would enable the impeller to generate a much stronger suction force and generate much more and better flow as well.
I am curious to see how long a SEIO pump motor will last given the power-ramp ups and downs.
D.
Al G Blenny
New member
Don't forget that the gap in prices between Tunze and Seio can be shortened. That makes buying Tunze a little more of an option. I just don't trust the Seio pumps. I ran them and had tons of problems. If you hate Rio pumps why would you buy a Seio. I would rather do the MJ mod than put more Seios in my tank. Closed Loop is nice but there isn't really a way to get the same flow from that as two Streams on a Multi.
