Servo's 850 Gallon Upgrade

All my equipment is outside :)

Only thing in the house is the tank, lights, Apex and Tunzes. Everything else is exterior.

I have an RO system for auto top off via an 8gal Kalk reactor I built. During the winter I evaporate about 15+g a day, even on a rainy day.

As summer heats up, the evaporation goes to over 45g a day.

With that much water changing, I don't have a need to do much for water changes. I only do water changes a couple of times a year.

If I had the ambition, and a simple method for mixing and dumping the water in, I would definitely do them more often. I think they are beneficial and recommend them.

But I am a lazy reefer, and my system does great with minimal attention.

I don't have a build thread, it's been too long a process.
 
Is Brent Higa active in your local club. He used to be a Los Angeles boy and moved to Texas several years ago. He's a great reefer and a good reefing friend to have.
 
Is Brent Higa active in your local club. He used to be a Los Angeles boy and moved to Texas several years ago. He's a great reefer and a good reefing friend to have.


Wow 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon. I housed some of Brent's corals when he moved out here back in 2005/6 ish. He moved to Rockwall and built a fantastic system. He had his front widows open all night. He wasn't aware how the day could be 75/80 degrees and it could drop to the 40's. Well his temp dropped to 60 degrees and he had a lot of organisms die. That was the last straw and he's been AWOL. I called him a couple of years ago, but he didn't return my call. Great guy!!! I hope he gets bit by the bug again.
 
D&D have produced a product just like the Genesis EVO. Hoping to see it at MACNA! I'm sure it is much more practical to service and stock.
 
Since these builds suck w/o pictures, here is the Power Roll Filter E200.
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What exactly is that? Looks like a really big bio wheel? Is that basically it?

Apparently its:

a roll of filter padding which is automatically spooled in and out of the stream of drain water. As the roll clogs, it overflows into a water wheel which turns the spool of used filter padding and feeding more fresh filter pad into the stream of waste water.
 
It's a big lazy man's filter sock with uber cool German engineering. Under the pipe you can see an area of brown. There is a big roll of 5 micron paper. As the paper picks up detritus, the porosity of the paper decreases. This causes the water in the chamber under the brown paper to rise. Once this occurs it pours over to the front chamber where the big black wheel is. This causes the paper to self prime, placing virgin paper under the returns. The process continues to clean off all of the detritus coming from the surface skimming. There is a kewl video from the original Genesis product. It's in german, but the design is really ingenious. The unit itself is really pricey for something that could be manufactured for 50 dollars in plastic and acrylic. The big question is how much are the rolls of paper, can they be reused and how long does it take for a tank with a moderate bioload thats fed daily to go through. For me, I'd love an automated system, as I hate filter socks, but if the rolls last me 2-3 weeks and they cost $25 to 40 dollars, then there is no way that I'm gonna buy something like this.
 
For those reading along, I'm considering a surge system instead of a closed loop system. I'm considering a cone tank as a possible storage tank option for a surge system with this tank.

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I think this would give me the best possible options for emptying the entire volume. I would elevate it above the tank and hook it up to an actuated ball valve for the surge. THe Ball valve would be set on a timer based upon how long the return would take to fill up the tank. I plan on using 2 sequence Hammerheads for the return, with a tee off to the Surge. I'll plumb it so I can shunt flow away from the surge system incase there are significant micro bubbles. I'll be able to shut this off with company. I'm still debating the pros and cons, but this would prevent me from using a closed loop. I hated my last one so much.

Feedback?
 
The surge tanks I've seen all sounded like a toilet flushing and produced tons of bubbles. Perhaps you could build a few mock-ups to work out the kinks first and find a design you like before committing to your DT.

Dave.M
 
Surges (if designed correctly) are amazing, and if not designed correctly are a tanks worst nightmare.

Personally I can't help too much, but I know of a few people who are very educated in surge set ups. Talk to:

CyclistMT he is designing a surge for his tank from a company called Blue Planet Waterworks.

Also try d3hree, he built his own surge tank (similar to CyclistMT).
 
Kovy.....I <3 you :D

My buddy Menard had a few set up on some systems in his store in the late 90's while I'm also going to pick Charles Delbeek's head about the CSD's that were set up in Hawaii.

The bubbles are my main concern, but I'm thinking with an actuated mechanical ball valve if it is set up close enough to the surface of the water, there won't be much air to contend with. I'm not sure. I'll deal with some bubbles, but I don't want small amounts of spray to destroy every thing around the tank.
 
Kovy.....I <3 you :D

My buddy Menard had a few set up on some systems in his store in the late 90's while I'm also going to pick Charles Delbeek's head about the CSD's that were set up in Hawaii.

The bubbles are my main concern, but I'm thinking with an actuated mechanical ball valve if it is set up close enough to the surface of the water, there won't be much air to contend with. I'm not sure. I'll deal with some bubbles, but I don't want small amounts of spray to destroy every thing around the tank.

Haha! :beer:

Basically you don't want it to look natural. :D

So, when do we get some pictures?
 
I think the issue you are going to have is that the actuated ball valve cycle time is too slow. You need something that opens and closes very quickly. For what you want you need pneumatics with an open and close trigger, so the pipe always has water in it.
 
What if I had 2 set up in series and triggers them at different rates? That should cut down the time. I haven't researched spects on ABV's but I'm sure there are ones who cycle quicker than others.
 
I think the issue you are going to have is that the actuated ball valve cycle time is too slow. You need something that opens and closes very quickly. For what you want you need pneumatics with an open and close trigger, so the pipe always has water in it.

ABV have been used on so many surge systems, I would assume they work fine. But then again, you probably know a lot more than me so Im just going to back off. :)
 
ABV have been used on so many surge systems, I would assume they work fine. But then again, you probably know a lot more than me so Im just going to back off. :)

No Don't back off. At this point, I'm planning, planning, planning. I know a little about alot, so any input can be VERY helpful. Never back off:crazy1:

I appreaciate it!!!
 
Fish Teen, Feel free to speak up. :)

Surge devices are done using either gravity or mechanical valves.

Gravity is great, because there is nothing to fail. It always works, and nothing can break in the system to cause an issue. Gravity systems down fall is you have to push all the air out of the pipe - which causes bubbles. There is usually a burp at the start of the surge, when the water finally overwhelms the air and pushes the air out of the pipe.

And then when the surge finishes there is a flush noise at the end of the cycle when the water falls below of the intake in the surge tank.

The costs involved with a Gravity surge is a pump, a tank, and a minimal amount of plumbing parts that can be found a home depot.

My surge is 26g, it sits on a second story above the tank. I engineered a muffler system for the pipe, and my surge makes no noise inside the house. Outside where the surge tank is, when the surge finishes it sounds like a wave breaking on a beach.

With 2" plumbing, all sweeps - no elbows, a 10'+ drop, 26 gallons falls in about 6 seconds and is a dramatic effect/impact in a 400g reef.

Now with Mechanical, you can overcome the bubbles, which is an issue with gravity. But now you add bits and parts that can fail. You need float switches, timers, overflow sensors, and the mechanical valves.

Major difference out of the gate, is the costs of the Actuated ball valves. Depending on the plumbing size the typical Spears / Hayward and Jandy are pricey toys.

But outside of initial cost, and longevity they bring their own issues. First off depending where your surge tank is located (Mine is outside) the valves make noise. The sound is like a plane starting a jet engine (not loud but that kind of droning noise).

Plus the cycle time of the ball valves is slow. Because they have to be able to open and close valves under heavy pressure they are slow and torque based. Some valves have a cycle time of 30 seconds from open to close.

That means the surge starts as a trickle and slowly builds up flow until the valve is fully opened... 30 seconds of draining water. You're going to need a very large surge tank, so that by the time the valve is fully open there is still enough water in the surge tank for there to be something to surge.

Now when that surge tank runs out of water its going to pull air at the end of its cycle, perhaps depending on your plumbing even a vortex, like you get when draining a bath tub, so you are still going to get air bubbles at the end of the surge cycle.

So the way to avoid this is to close the pipe before the surge tank runs dry. So now you have to cycle the valve again - another 30 seconds while still having enough water in the surge tank to keep water in the plumbing and not air.

Even if you had a gigantic surge tank, and set up a timer system where the valves open and close. Then next issue you have is longevity. Actuated ball valves are not really designed for continuous use. So depending on your flow rate into the surge tank.... how frequently are you going to need the valves to cycle.

My second story tank is filled with a Rio Hyperflow 32. And my surge cycles about every 90 seconds.

Now, pneumatics would be the valve of choice because they have very quick response times. So they can open and close in the matter of a second or two. Which is the perfect on/off time for a surge tank. To keep you bubble free in your display tank.

But the pneumatics also have their issues. One is the cost. Two, you need a compressor to keep them supplied with pressure. Three the noise when they cycle. Four. Because they operate so quickly, the water flow in the plumbing changes quickly and it can cause your plumbing to Slam... Loudly like a shudder in your house.


I am sure there are many threads of people who have done different surges who all claim theirs is the best.

But before you implement one, you need to really try to see it in action. And then I would recommend building a mock-up to see if that design works for you. People who have taken the time to design a surge tank for themselves are very proud in what they have done, and will usually overlook the downsides to their design --- bubbles, noise, shuddering plumbing.

And then there is the wife factor...

In most applications you can't run a surge system 24/7... They all make some bit of noise and depending on the location to where you sleep or live your life the surge tank needs to be on a cycle around your waking hours.
 
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