Several fish with ich due to a new addition

[Swayze27]

I recently added a purple tang and it stressed everyone out briefly causing a heavy ich outbreak. The stress of the new addition has settled but I'm left with ich. Getting the fish out to a treatment tank is sadly not an option and I have coral, inverts, anemone, etc. so treating main tank won't work either. So what are my options? Heavy feeding and good water quality?

 

[Dealseer]

This is not good.

 

[Brieninsac]

Tangs are notorious for developing Ich. I can't imagine ever adding one directly to your DT. If you're not going to pull the fish out to treat your options are limited.

 

[Swayze27]

I tend to believe ich is inevitable at some point. I've seen it with proper quarantine as well. The blue hippo started it off, imagine that.

 

[MMacro]

Tangs are notorious for developing Ich. I can't imagine ever adding one directly to your DT. If you're not going to pull the fish out to treat your options are limited.

+1
There is no proven reef safe remedy to cure ich.
The only way to get rid of it is to directly treat the fish in a separate quarantine tank. You will also need to keep the tank fallow for 72-90 days.

I tend to believe ich is inevitable at some point. I've seen it with proper quarantine as well. The blue hippo started it off, imagine that.

Ich and most, if not all diseases are completely avoidable with proper quarantine procedures.

 

[Swayze27]

I've treated with copper, I've left tanks fallow, I have more 10-20 gallon QT tanks than I can shake a stick at yet ich has shown its face from time to time. I'm not saying not to QT, I'm just saying in my experience a lot of time and effort goes into quarantine with a good chance that the same result can occur. No amount of QT can prevent stress or initial aggression from a new addition which can lead to an outbreak. I obviously did not go to the lfs and pick out an unhealthy, ich covered purple tang and plop it in my tank.

 

[FishN00b83]

Im not sure what you're looking for. You said you can't pull the fish out, and you cant treat the display because the LR will absorb the copper...I guess good luck?

 

[Swayze27]

I guess looking for people that have had success with fish making it through without treatment only good nutrition and good water quality

 

[JustinM]

Ich is not inevitable. It is preventable and very possible to have a disease free tank. I now have ich too from improper qt'ing of corals, lesson learned! I removed all fish and am treating with cupramine. It sucks but it easier than dealing with dead fish.

Can fish live through ich, definitely. It only takes one fish to lose immunity and all hell can break loose. Paul B is a prime example of someone that manages ich. It may work for some and not others, but to each their own.

Best of luck!

 

[Swayze27]

The stress of trying to remove my fish would cause me to break out in ich, lol. I'm gonna feed well and cross the ole fingers.

 

[JustinM]

I get it, it is tough. It's like pulling a bandaid off, you just need to do it. It took us about a week to catch 14 fish. Our acclimation box was used and we tied a string to it and waited. One by one the came and it was much easier than I thought. The mandarin was actually the easiest. I turned the disco effect on my radions and he went into a trance and just came to the top.

I don't know how big your tank is but it can be done.

 

[Swayze27]

Gonna observe for a little longer and if it worsens I will start trapping and set up treatment tanks. It definitely bothers me seeing it on them. I've just been through this before and it's no fun.

 

[ThRoewer]

I guess looking for people that have had success with fish making it through without treatment only good nutrition and good water quality

I've had it plenty of times where fish with a light Cryptocaryon infection beat it on their own. But it requires more than just good nutrition and good water quality (actually water quality really doesn't matter too much). You may have to say goodbye to those fish that are not right for your tank. In many cases that means banning all tangs. Also all trouble makers that cause stress to other fish may have to go.

The reason why a consistently light Cryptocaryon infection can go extinct in a system is acquired immunity against the parasite and the parasite wearing itself out due to lack of new genetic influx. But that has only a chance to work if the fish are not constantly stressed and the introduction of new Cryptocaryon strains is prevented by a strict quarantine regime.

Also, if the infection is escalating, treatment with TTM, hyposalinity or even copper will be required.
A fish that is actually sick with Cryptocaryonosis has very little chance to beat it without intervention.

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[jam.jo]

There is no other option to treat your display, good nutrition is not going to eradicate ich from your tank, and I wouldn't rely on that to keep your fish immune because that is a myth. Ich can be hard to see on the outside if the fish is healthy and not stressed, but it will actually attack the gills, making it harder for the fish to breathe and the fish can actually become anemic from an ich infestation. Anyways, you will need to QT your fish, I catch my fish in the evening hours with the lights out which makes it easier. Sometimes I have to take all of my live rock out and put it in a separate tub of saltwater to temperature. I have 20-30 different corals and inverts.

 

[DamonG]

Hmmnn.. As a Tang lover, I have to be honest, I've lost a lot of them over years past.. And the few things I've learned with them, is a fat fish, most of the time for me is a healthy fish.. And that is primary goal up front with them.. I will elaborate on a moment..

But I would be neglect without mentioning my buddy.. Extremely bright, cautious, meticulous, careful, planning, experienced, fish/reef animal lover that I have ever met.. He is my go to guy (one of two) that if I need info about fish.. He incorporated the, and qt on all of his animals for 90 days, faithfully! And even he has had a couple run ins over the years.. So, I am not a big fan of the ttm and all of the qt that people spit so quickly at you..

My goal, is to deal with things before, and in the freak event that something happens, during.. Lol, nothing against anyone, but I am not going to stress out the rest of my fish, chasing with a net one they are in the display.. I have found it does more comparative harm than good.. I employ a method my other fish guy brought up to me :medicated food..

I mix up medicated food, and keep it frozen.. It's medicated and Vitamin enriched.. I mix up mysis, choped nori, freeze dried krill, spiralina 20 flake, a few pellets, and add in selcon, metroplex, garlic(for attracting), and then some kz immune stable fish.. On top of that, I feed them nori heavily, to the point of it being almost insane!

Upon adding a fish to the display, and a period of at least two weeks, I make sure there is nori that has been treated with drops of selcon, the garlic, and immune stable.. I make sure I let it dry before adding to the tank.. And they have access to this 24/7.. I then, feed them the medicated frozen mysis mixture on top of the nori boost stuff.. I feed them this for two weeks also.. I'm the display.. And as long as the fish is at least eating nori, usually, by the end of 2 weeks ,they are plump and all signs of it are gone(not just the dissappear and reappear that it likes to do).. Once that is over, I still make sure that their main staple is nori, since I have mostly herbivores..

I have yet to lose one with this methodology and technique in over 3 years... I do qt in my tub, but that's attached to the system, along with when first acclimation, I add cupramine to the bucket while dripping..

This process and technique hasn't failed me.. My most recent additions, and I went out on a limb, are a powder brown and clown Tang.. Both are doing well and fat in the display.. I haven't been able to get the clown off the nori, as yet (they are a difficult fish), but, he is now eating the spiralina 20.. So it's just a matter of time.. The powder brown is doing great, fat and happy..

We can't always quarantine, and sometimes, it breaks out in the system.. And mine is bare bottom.. It just depends on what they have and their desire to fight (along with honestly, what stage you caught them in). There are ways to treat in the system, and even beat it.. Because once you are able to get the fish healthy and strong, you naturally go through the famous period "in a sense" as long as you add nothing else to the system.. And at that point, you should be good.. However, anytime I see a spot, and say have to treat in any kind of way, I wait 6 months at least to add another fish.. That's 6 months from the time of the end of the treatment period ..


It can be done.. Is it easy? No, not until you know what makes them strong.. Then, you can simply work on them in a natural and calm environment to them.. And it does work..

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[edshern]

How about pulling out the coral and put the coral in a holding tank, instead of the fish? Treat the main tank with copper (or whatever) then lots of water changes then return coral.

Definitely easier than netting the fish.

Just a thought.

 

[Swayze27]

I have large anemones and other inverts and about 200 pounds of rock. I too feel that I would crash my tank and cause more stress trying to remove fish or anything else. I've been pumping them full of nori soaked in garlic, formula 2 pellets, and occasional mysis. I sit and watch my tank every evening and my fish have never shown signs of ich. After adding the purple tang stress spiked because I had not added a fish in over a year. The ich was there in the system, the purple tang did not bring a truck load of it with him. Until this addition I could have claimed to have an ich free system but obviously it was not. I don't believe in ich free systems, I believe in systems with ich free fish. I think we are all one incident away from an outbreak.

 

[jam.jo]

The members in this forum recommend QT because feeding nori and selcon is not going to get rid of ich. I agree meticulous quarantining before adding fish, corals and inverts is absolutely necessary to have an ich free system once you get rid of it in your display. You can try metroplex but you should also use focus to bind the food to the medication so that the medication is not free in your system affecting corals and inverts. You would also need to remove carbon if using metroplex. Again, ich is a parasite that produces thousands of offspring in a constant cycle. The amount of ich in the ocean is nowhere close to the amount of ich that your fish are exposed to in the aquarium environment. So yes, it must be eradicated. Ich is very small and while you may see some spots on the outside of the fish after it has fed on the outside and the cyst is about to burst off of the fish, the majority of ich is not seen with the naked eye. Especially in the gill tissues, which is the major area of concern. Also, secondary bacterial infections are a risk when those cysts under the fish tissue break open. Catching your fish is less stressful than having difficulty breathing long term, suffering, and dying in my opinion. That is pure laziness on the aquarists part to not put in the effort to QT all of their fish. Ich also has resistant strains to different treatments, so if you use metroplex correctly and it works, great. But if that fails, I suppose I have no other advice for you than to sit back and watch your fish suffer/die since you have no desire to be a responsible aquarist and put the effort into properly taking care of your fish.

 

[Swayze27]

Thanks for your opinion jam.jo. Which is exactly what it is. I'm glad you QT the 2 fish you have in the biocube.....next

 

[JustinM]

Metroplex only treats bacterial infections and Brook. Binding it with focus for feeding purposes will only treat internal infections, i.e., white, stringy poop.

If you can't catch them, then do as you described. There are many people that ich manage and I would never be the first to judge. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Just feed lots of good, healthy food, and as much live food as you can.

I will always advise to qt but I understand that it is not always that simple. You may win this battle or you may not. As long as you can accept this, all will be well. Frequent water changes when you don't see ich on your fish may help manage it as well.

Best of luck and happy reefing!

Justin