Several fish with ich due to a new addition
- Thread starter Swayze27
- Start date
jam.jo
New member
Oh the tank in my picture? Yeah that is one of my tanks, not a biocube, but a 40 gal. Swayze if you don't want advice with proper fish disease treatment, then don't post questions on this forum and ask for advice. Not to mention argue with other experienced reefers just because you believe your leaving the fish in a tank with thousands of parasites is the best way to handle it. Wrong. Happy Reefing!
Swayze27
New member
I want advice, but throwing insults in with your advice is not wanted by anyone on here. This lazy, irresponsible reefer you are responding to has QT'd and treated many fish over the years and actually just recently put two carpets through a rigorously scheduled cipro treatment. I have also maintained 180 gallon system and a 93 cube for several years until recently. So don't preach to someone and throw sly remarks at people when you don't know the first thing about their reefing abilities or history. I wanted opinions from people who have successfully dealt with ich without copper or hypo treatment and there are many experienced and highly respected people in this hobby that have. Who doesn't know the whole copper and fallow song, I'm looking for people who have had success in other ways. Also according to some posts above you gave misinformation about medicine you suggested, thanks bud.
rtparty
Raise The Reef!
I've never QTd a thing in over 11 years and I don't plan to. IMO it doesn't work eventually. Somehow a parasite will find its way in no matter how careful you are. There are diseases and parasites we can't even treat if they do pop up.
Just keep up good husbandry, good healthy food and let the problem work itself out. No need to tear down your tank and stress the living hell out of all of them. I guarantee you would have multiple deaths doing this.
Just keep up good husbandry, good healthy food and let the problem work itself out. No need to tear down your tank and stress the living hell out of all of them. I guarantee you would have multiple deaths doing this.
ThRoewer
New member
That is recipe for disaster.
Cryptocaryon is not high on my list of things to fear simply because it usually gives you a lot of time to react and because almost all fish that survive at a LFS for more than a month have acquired some level of immunity against it. Things need to be really bad for a fish to die of Cryptocaryon. All those people that report "I lost all my fish to ich" most likely had a run-in with something far more virulent that doesn't give fish enough time to mount any effective defense.
There are parasites that move so quickly, that by the time you notice them your fish are already doomed.
I would never put a new fish straight into my display tank. Depending on the fish species and the source I generally quarantine new fish for 4 to 8 weeks. Besides an initial formalin bath my quarantine process is purely observational (which is the very definition of quarantine!) Even mandarin fish I quarantine for at least 2 weeks.
My QTs are generally also not sterile or barren but have live rock and algae.
Treatment is only administered if fish are sick and if the infection has been identified or at least narrowed down enough to know which treatment should work. IME most blind treatments can do more harm than good.
But not to quarantine at all is like playing Russian Roulette with just one empty chamber.
I agree however that a low level chronic Cryptocaryon infection is no cause for drastic measures, especially not if a lot of fish are involved, especially if many of those fish are on top of that large. In such cases the likelihood of losing fish due stress and other failures is then usually higher then if the tank is just left alone. Often it is enough to remove a bully or fix whatever is causing the fish stress.
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rtparty
Raise The Reef!
I like your QT more than others.
Yet, here I am 11 years in and never had serious pest or disease to deal with. I always go easy on fish and don't deal with the disease prone fish either.
I don't recommend people not to QT. I just don't think it's the end of the world if you don't. Find a good LFS, watch the fish there for a little bit and know what to look for. Thankfully, I have a pretty good LFS that watches and treats his fish
ThRoewer
New member
Well, I've done it that way too, back in the days when I got my fish straight from the wholesaler and had more tanks than some smaller stores. But often new fish would just go into a new system that functioned as QT and then turned DT.
The LFS I buy most of my fish here is also pretty good, but fish often get sold the day that they arrive. So if you want a certain fish you got to get it right away or it might be gone.
More often than not I was lucky and the fish were healthy or had at most an ich infection, but I also got some fish came with flukes, and had those made it into my DT I would have likely lost everything. Due to the QT I only lost $600 worth of Ventralis Anthias.
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The LFS I buy most of my fish here is also pretty good, but fish often get sold the day that they arrive. So if you want a certain fish you got to get it right away or it might be gone.
More often than not I was lucky and the fish were healthy or had at most an ich infection, but I also got some fish came with flukes, and had those made it into my DT I would have likely lost everything. Due to the QT I only lost $600 worth of Ventralis Anthias.
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FishN00b83
New member
Apparently you havent learned from your "reefing abilities/history". You've received some good advise in this thread, but you decided to disregard it. You want someone to just say "Hey man, leave your tank, it'll go away" but that's not going to happen. You need to remove the parasite from the system. :deadhorse1:
I had a very tiny ich outbreak on the first fish I put in my DT. I'd had him a couple years at that point. Tiny flare up and never seen it again. I had no new additions to the tank and no obvious cause of stress. The fish didn't appear stressed either. I carefully observed and it went away.
If it had been a more severe outbreak I certainly would have removed all the fish and treated them. Even with my system, 300 gal, and tons of live rock, I could get all the fish out. You just need to research different methods to catch them.
Garlic Guard, Vitality and regular food mix. When there is no ich
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Swayze27
New member
FishNoob83, never said I haven't received good advice but obviously everyone knows about cupramine in a QT and staring at a water filled box with nothing in it for 6-8 weeks. I'm specifically asking if others have had success without treatment and methods they use to do so. And if you want to be technical all of you are poisoning your fish with copper.....I'm trying not to subject my fish to poison 
scuzy
Active member
Let's put it this way it didn't hurt me with having ich for many years when I had cheap fish. It eventually started to hurt my pocket when you start having all those rare expensive fishes. Sure it takes time for it to multiply but not having enough proper cycle quarantine tanks and moving over 30+ fish is going to be a disaster. Now I go through strict quarantine protocol everything wet goes through 72 day quarantine before going in display. I can't afford to lose 5-8k worth of fish cause my lazy *** didn't quarantine them properly. To each their own. I say treat them. Good luck.
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OoNickoC
Curator of glass boxes
In a system that large you should be able to drain the entire system to about 10%, remove some rock if necessary, and refill with the same water with negligible effects. If chasing a fish around after draining the water destabilizes the system there are some serious fundamental problems.
That said, you said "outbreak" if your entire tank or more than afew have ich your probably in for a QT nightmare unless you document everything you do to isolate the real issue.
:facepalm:
OoNickoC
Curator of glass boxes
:beer:
DamonG
New member
You know, the thing is.. It's really easy over a computer or on a phone to "judge" or be the "police".. I personally find it funny, because, if you go look at some threads and histories of most people that get on forums, with the high and mighty, judgement disposition, your probably better off, just following your first mind, and learning first hand yourself..FishNoob83, never said I haven't received good advice but obviously everyone knows about cupramine in a QT and staring at a water filled box with nothing in it for 6-8 weeks. I'm specifically asking if others have had success without treatment and methods they use to do so. And if you want to be technical all of you are poisoning your fish with copper.....I'm trying not to subject my fish to poison
I will say that, of course there are people that manage our
it, and then, there are people that cannot.. For example, and this is why I'm not a big qt person.. Lol, and it's based off tangs.. A few years back (about 6 or 7),i purchased my first over 100 gallon display tank.. I set up 3 qt tanks, and was anal about qt.. Well, guess what, over that 3 year period ,i ended up learning and losing Ton of life(after qt correctly).. And what did I learn? I learned a lot about nurturing and feeding.. Not only tangs, but angels also.. And yes, I also learned, that source is vitally important (where you buy your fish from). And, I learned a lot from my lfs guy that I do trust (first one in decades)..
So is it laziness? No.. And I think that's very presumptuous, to assume someone elses situation and judge like that.. It's it that you don't care? Some people don't, but I know that's not me, and for you to ask, I don't think it's that at all.. Not everyone can set up a qt station, and then, at that, or of those that are set up, really, how many are proper? After all, let's be honest, we're talking about tangs, and they like to swim.. Are you any better at all, stuffing that small Tang in a 10 or 20 gallon qt tank? Or are you doing more harm because they can't stretch their legs? Are you providing then adequate flow that they need and are used to in that qt? Whereas, the vast majority of us focus on only flow in the display.. And that's one of the reasons why tangs eat the way they do.. They burn a lot of energy swimming.. So if your basically doing the Tang in a fish bowl (what I call it), and you don't have a decent sized tank (like at least a 30 gallon long style for even small ones, with some kind of WaveMaker in it, who are you to judge), what are you really doing tbh..
There are a lot more things than, to just saying qt, qt, qt and then judging and downing someone else for not following your plan(especially if your plan isn't sound or based off the animals requirements). And yes, I've lost some expensive fish, and that made me even angrier because I qt them "according to the rules"..
I have had better success over the past years, drip acclimation, and then medicated food, in a big tank to let them feel at home, versus qt in a little tank that they can barely flap their fins 3 times ,if that ..
To me ,there are so many ways to achieve a goal..
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MMacro
New member
FishNoob83, never said I haven't received good advice but obviously everyone knows about cupramine in a QT and staring at a water filled box with nothing in it for 6-8 weeks. I'm specifically asking if others have had success without treatment and methods they use to do so. And if you want to be technical all of you are poisoning your fish with copper.....I'm trying not to subject my fish to poison
But you will leave them with parasites?
Copper isn't the only way to treat ich.
:deadhorse:
You obviously set your mind on not doing anything to help the fish and cure the diseases/parasites.
So far you have blown off everyone that told you to quarantine or actively do something about it.
Probably about time to close this thread :hammer: :lolspin:
Swayze27
New member
The purpose of the thread was to obtain info about what people do that do not treat with copper or hypo or pull all their fish out and leave tank bare for several weeks. Not sure how many times I have to say that. Y'all are beating the dead horse, I'm trying to see if some people saddle their horse up differently and keep riding. And my copper comment was a joke.....although it is poisonous to the fish, that's factual information.
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