Several small "groups" of angels

[Mickey]

I am in the process of restocking my 225 gallon reef tank and decided to focus on adding several pairs or trios of dwarf angels. current occupants are two pajama cardinals I've had for 11 years, one ocellaris clown (6 years) and 3 blue-green chromis (1 year).

I am planning to add three flame angels, 2 coral beauties, and 2 multicolors. All are being QT'd together right now and seem to be fine at the 2.5 week mark. Is it better to have trios rather than duos if you are going to keep multiples? I've been thinking about trying to find another coral beauty and multicolor that are same size or smaller than what I have now.

What do you think? Will duos of these two work (I hesitate to call them pairs)? or am I better with trios?

Mickey

 

[flameangel88]

I think you'll have your hands full so I would just stay course with what's already in QT. I would give the multicolor a 2-3 days advantage before introducing the coral beauty and flame angels.

I've a trio of flame angels for 4 years and they get along with a pair of lemonpeel that was paired a year ago in a 180 FOWLR. I just introduced a pair of potters to a established coral beauty that was aggressive for two days but things settled and all three are doing well in a 120 reef.

Are you planning on keeping any other angels? I would love to see your stocking list.

 

[Mickey]

Sorry for the delay in responding. We had a snowstorm in the Northeast on Saturday and I lost power at 3:00. Still not back yet but I'm borrowing internet and a shower from my daughter a few towns away...........

Anyway, stocking list is:

Existing: 2 pajama cardinals, 3 blue-green chromis and 1 ocellaris clown. The chromis have been with me for 1 year, the clown for 6 or 7 and the pj's for 11 years.

In QT now at a friend's:
3 small flame angels (1-1.5")
2 coral beauties (one is 1.5 - 2" and the other is smaller)

Friend also got 2 small multicolor angels at the same time and has them in the same tank. He has a wholesale business and has my fish in a separate tank. Of course, I haven't talked with him in a few days and with the storm and most of CT out of power I don't know how things are faring.

I've got my fingers crossed that all is well and I was planning on taking them all home with me for another two weeks of QT. Hence my question about whether duos are okay (I hesitate to all them pairs at this point) or if I would be better off making them all trios. Tank is a 225 gallon and has been set up for 7 years.

Ironically, I lost my three larger fish to a power outage in Hurricane Irene two months ago - a sailfin tang, hippo tang and foxface - all had been with me for almost 7 years as they were the first fish added to the new tank. Each had grown to about 6" or so. I learned my lesson the hard way and now have a generator going to keep the pumps and heaters going on the tank so it is staying pretty stable even though the house is down to 50 degrees.

Mickey

 

[flameangel88]

Trios would be nice but pairs are perfectly fine. I'm concern with adding that many at the same time otherwise I would have said go with the trio. If you've plenty of rockwork then they should be able to find their own space otherwise you will see more chasing and nipping. You'll be doubling the bio-load so I recommend keeping a close eye on the water param and do partial water changes often.

Sorry to hear of your lost. I was fortunate as my next door neighbor on the corner lot lost power for 2 days during hurricane Irene while I had power.

 

[jjk_reef00]

Curious are you buying pairs, or are you trying to pair them up?
Also they have a bicolor on DD I would have bought if I didn't already have a bicolor in my DT and 2 other fish in qt.

 

[flameangel88]

Curious are you buying pairs, or are you trying to pair them up?
Also they have a bicolor on DD I would have bought if I didn't already have a bicolor in my DT and 2 other fish in qt.

Given the size OP posted (1-1.5" on the flame trio) I would say trying to pair them up.

 

[Sheol]

Sounds workable to me. And a neat idea, although a harem arrangement for one species would also be cool. And maybe more natural..
I hope he didn't lose power in that big Nor'easter that hit the Northeast USA over the weekend!

Matthew

 

[Mickey]

Yes, I did lose power in the big Nor'easter. It went out around 3:00 Saturday. Good news is it is back on tonight. Tanks are fine as I got a generator up and running shortly after power went out. We knew this would be more than just a few hours. House got down to 50 degrees, but tanks stayed between 74 and 78.

Now I just need to call the guy who was QT'ing the angels to see how he made out. Hopefully he had a generator too as he had a lot of tanks to support for his business.

Mickey

 

[flameangel88]

If I was taking in that many angels at the same time I would stop by to see in person. Of course, only if was within reasonable drive.

Pls post pictures after you get them.

 

[Mickey]

I've already seen them twice while in QT, just not since the storm hit. I have my fingers crossed that they made it.

Mickey

 

[Sheol]

I'm crossing mine as well!
BTW, smart move on the generator! LOL

MAtthew

 

[Mickey]

Picked up some of the fish tonight. Just in the last 24 hours two fish died, one of the coral beauties and one of the multicolors. All three flame angels were fine so I picked them up and they are in a quarantine tank at my house for a time.

Now I have a big decision - do I still try to obtain 3 coral beauties and maybe 3 multicolors or something else? Or do I just stay with three flames and think about adding something else instead of the other angels.

Mickey

 

[albano]

In QT now at a friend's:
3 small flame angels (1-1.5")

Do you know if it is 1 male and 2 females?

 

[Mickey]

Well I picked up the flames yesterday. Definitely 1 male and I'm not sure about the other two. I'm pretty sure one is a female and not sure about the other - could be partly morphed to male or not. I'll post pictures later as I need some help figuring this out.

It turns out that sometime yesterday one of the coral beauties and one multicolor died and I didn't want to take the "singles" remaining. Now I need to decide if I want to place another order for another trio or two.

 

[Mickey]

:sad1:Very sad day.

The flame angels had been doing very well. Yesterday I add two more trios (one of coral beauties, and one of african flamebacks) to the same QT tank as the flame angels. I was worried about the new guys since the angels were pretty established by then.

I watched throughout the day and never saw any real fighting, just a little picking amongst all of them as if to say "hey, this is my place". I was surprised that the new ones seemed more comfortable in the tank than the original flame angels. last night one of them was staying near the top of the tank with fast respiration and I was worried.

this morning, "he" was dead and so was the male flame. In examining them, some of their fins were a little ratty but no other signs. The remaining one (the female) was now swimming at the top with rapid breathing. I had to go out for the day but I isolated it in a small 'critter cage' within the tank with a couple of plumbing elbows in it for hiding places hoping it would calm down. Unfortunately she died this afternoon while I was away.

I feel horrible and wonder what I should have done differently. I didn't want to put the flames in my display ahead of the others. Maybe that would have been better.

I'm assuming the stress of the new additions caused the death of these flames because I saw no sign of disease or anything prior to that and less than 36 hours after adding them all three flames were dead. What else could I/should I have done? Is it a bad idea to add some again? or do I need to just give up on that idea?

Mickey:sad1:

 

[reefjunkie42]

I dont know man, it seems like centropyge isnt your thing. why are you so bend on them anyway? why not add a trio of more 1 angel in the genicanthus genus. Maybe a few japanese swallow tail females and watch 1 turn male. Also wrasses do good in groups. Just a though.

 

[Mickey]

Thanks for your suggestions. Genicanthus get larger than I want to keep and wrasses are known jumpers. My tank does have a canopy, it doesn't have a cover and I don't want to have fish dying on the lights or the glass frame around the tank thought the dwarf angels were a better selection.

 

[albano]

and wrasses are known jumpers.

FISH are known jumpers...IMO, every tank needs a cover!

 

[flameangel88]

Mickey,

I don't know if others will agree with me but I believe fish does not need physical harm to get killed but stress alone can kill them. I recently added a slightly larger emperor that was in QT and hypo for 8 weeks before introduced to a tank with a black tang that was already in for 2 weeks. I saw the black tang whipping its tail but never saw the tail actually touched the emp or saw any physical damage on the emp. All of a sudden the emp turned pale and died within a relatively short time. I also added 2 butterflies at the same time and the butterflies are fine. The only thing I can think of is the emp didn't back down and certainly not in their nature to bow to a smaller fish and was just too much stress for it to handle. Lesson here for me is to use a acclimation box even when adding a larger fish and totally my fault that I didn't think a 3" black tang can be that aggressive.

My suggestion for you when you add a pair or trio in the future try to use a 12" acclimation box to socially acclimate them and you can see their interaction prior to releasing them. I usualling use a acclimation box for a week when adding angels to my angels tank and never had a problem. Obviously there will be some minor nipping and chasing upon initial release but that generally subside within a day or 2 and totally fine after a week or 2.

Sorry for your lost and hope better success the next time!

Kevin

 

[Mickey]

flameangel88 -
I am assuming it was stress as well, but I thought I would have seen signs in time to save them. I also thought the new fish were more at risk than the flames since I had them in the tank for several weeks already.

Can you give me a picture of the acclimation box you are talking about? Or a link to one online? And if stress is the issue, what signs do I look for while they are in the acclimation box?

I'm presently looking for a larger tank and stand I can use as a QT then I hope to move the 6 I have now into it along with everything else in my existing QT, and then add another trio. I wanted to QT all together and then add them to my display all together as well. I thought that would be safer. Or do you think I should finish the QT time with the ones I have (which have 4 weeks to go) and then add another trio of flames to QT then use the acclimation box in 2-3 months to get them into the display?

Mickey