Should FVRC move Forward

[kesslerkid01]

Hello ALL,
Just my quik 2 cents worth I am currently a vice president of a snowmobile club up north and if you think for one second that by forming a "club"you will end the bickering and such you are badly mistakin. the minute you "charge"dues everything changes evryone has a better why of doing something and that is there right but buy chargeing a fee to do something you open a new can of worms by the way people feel about something and doing something and if you charge time one guy or two guys will do "all"the work and someone will sit and watch been there seen that ain't going back there. but before anyone flies off and forms a real club you should really look at the good things we have with not being so formal (if you don't like it you can just leave cost nothing done nothing leave nothing no looking back ) now you pay money or invest time you will not want to just leave or just forget about it this is a very gray matter and someone said something about by-laws and such now you need a lawyer and all! man i feel you might be jumping off the deep end and getting real deeply involved if you don't like something in this "club"change it like have a "party"at your house have a topic post it before time let everyone bring there thoughts then move on but i don't beleive forming a legal actuall club will change anything for the better
______________sorry so long winded but have a point to get across and i don' type well so sorry again!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks for listening
Kris

 

[Fishcrazy06]

I didn't vote. And I see this going right where the other thread before as well. I am not one to hold grudges. Yes Jeremy this includes you. I do not like the bashing that is done to anyone anywhere no matter what . Especially if they are personal.

I do like the idea of us getting back to a club. Talking about a trials and errors. Whats working for me and whats working for you. The threads that use to be out there. I have a problem with this.......What would you suggest? Have you seen this? Any ideas of where to start? This is what the club should be about. We are all in it for the exact seem reason. We have a huge OBSESSION!!!!!!!

Is the dues, the by-laws, the officers....etc.... worth it? I don't think so. I think if anything it will chase some people off. Some may be offended some may not care either way.

I think there has been some things done and said that need to be corrected and we need to all move on. Need to accept that we are all human and we are all set in our ways weather we like to admit it or not. Its human nature to have our opinions and stick by them. (Jeremy your thread this morning was a very noble and Man like thing to do. I am sure that took some NUTS.)

The one thing I did like though is what Spike said about having another "Site" is that we can buy and sell everything and everything no matter how many posts we have or what it is.

Just some of my random thoughts off the top of my head. Not to mention look what WRS just went through about 2 or so months ago.

One other thing that came up is a discount at the LFS. I think we as a group need to get a good relationship with one of the local store and have them support us as much as we support them. Not saying you need to buy everything from them but there should be a middle ground somewhere. I don't think any of the local stores from Green Bay down south have any involvement with the club which I think is a bad thing. I know I have said this in the past but there needs to be some common ground somewhere. Just my .02 on this as well. We can't just go up to a store owner and say hey we started a club we want club discount. I think that is kind of well....Rude.....

Eric

 

[crabbejoe]

For those like me that are trying to play catch up on all this, what did WRS go through?

 

[customcolor]

last time something like this was brought up there was no one that wanted to go formal...some ground was made....we have 4 at this point......its a start....i think its good to take it slow if thats the road that this club will someday go. i know one thing alot of us would like to see is a frag swap in this area...someday..i hope.

 

[jlinzmaier]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14633319#post14633319 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishcrazy06
I didn't vote. And I see this going right where the other thread before as well. I am not one to hold grudges. Yes Jeremy this includes you. I do not like the bashing that is done to anyone anywhere no matter what . Especially if they are personal.

I do like the idea of us getting back to a club. Talking about a trials and errors. Whats working for me and whats working for you. The threads that use to be out there. I have a problem with this.......What would you suggest? Have you seen this? Any ideas of where to start? This is what the club should be about. We are all in it for the exact seem reason. We have a huge OBSESSION!!!!!!!

Is the dues, the by-laws, the officers....etc.... worth it? I don't think so. I think if anything it will chase some people off. Some may be offended some may not care either way.

I think there has been some things done and said that need to be corrected and we need to all move on. Need to accept that we are all human and we are all set in our ways weather we like to admit it or not. Its human nature to have our opinions and stick by them. (Jeremy your thread this morning was a very noble and Man like thing to do. I am sure that took some NUTS.)

The one thing I did like though is what Spike said about having another "Site" is that we can buy and sell everything and everything no matter how many posts we have or what it is.

Just some of my random thoughts off the top of my head. Not to mention look what WRS just went through about 2 or so months ago.

One other thing that came up is a discount at the LFS. I think we as a group need to get a good relationship with one of the local store and have them support us as much as we support them. Not saying you need to buy everything from them but there should be a middle ground somewhere. I don't think any of the local stores from Green Bay down south have any involvement with the club which I think is a bad thing. I know I have said this in the past but there needs to be some common ground somewhere. Just my .02 on this as well. We can't just go up to a store owner and say hey we started a club we want club discount. I think that is kind of well....Rude.....

Eric

Eric Thank you!! I appreciate your comments about me and I hope everyone can accept my apologies.

I think you make some very valid points. Lets get back to the fundamentals of FVRC. If there are areas that we need to work on in the group then lets do it. It doesn't take an entire upheaval and change of format to make changes. Maybe some rules or guidelines do need to be established but that doesn't mean we have to enitrely change everything we're doing. This is the last I'll say in regards to the political aspect of this forum for now. This topic needs a rest and then a thorough review with specific topics after we've all had a chance to do some research, think about what means most to us, and understand what this club is really about (or what we want it to be about).

OK I'm of to start another thread - completely not related to any of this but getting back to the heart of what this club is about!!

Jeremy

 

[jlinzmaier]

Damn it. Now in all this commotion and chaos I overlooked the birth of my 1000th post.

Jeremy

 

[sunfish11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14632685#post14632685 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bri Guy
I havn't read all the posts lately about whats all going on, but recently I noticed a good reason to have a more formal club.

When Lisa posted that we were going to DFS again, and people that never post are on the list, and real club members were on the waiting list. Moments like that make me wish we had a club with real club members, instead of RC lurkers.

my $.02

I don't want to go down this road at all. It was a first post first on the list basis and that is it.

You just might meet some new friends, and they may feel more comfortable posting once they are made to feel welcome. The path this is heading down will only chase people away from our 'club.'

Lisa

 

[jmkarcz]

I think I'm going to abstain from voting...right now.

I also think that before we discuss money there are other more pressing matters that the club should take up FIRST.

I'm sure we will all agree that at some point we will need some funding/funds to do something... but talking $ now only muddys the water with a fight over who controls it and what it is used for... and how it's accounted for.


I urge everyone to think about DEFINING the club and a set of policies or way to deal with simple things... then, over time, as we get together and solve the free problems on our plate, we could begin to have a way to deal with problems or issues that will make dealing with money easier. In this case, I say money will buy no happiness at this time.

I suggest...

A unified mission statement or goal that the cub can stand behind... that represents WHY we're even comming to this board to talk in the first place. Some are here for the frags and to sell, others are here to help others, Still others are hear to be helped... Some just come here to sell their tanks because their done completely....

We should decide on some causes that fit this goal and statement... that speak for who we are and why we come here. We can change these later...


maybe we should agree just to discuss a issue facing the club at each meeting, not just a topic. It doesn't have to be set in stone, but would work better when all are present.

I'm not saying that we should elect a president (like the last time that went so well), but maybe edge toward a collection of very active members that could talk (committee) that could suggest some rigid as pudding bylaws or general code for the club.

I spoke briefly with Jeremy this evening about something very simple... When a member puts a bit of LIVE stock up for free or for sale, should the first person to respond automatically be entitled to it??? or should the seller be allowed to be able to decide..."Gee.. this person does not have the expertise or the tank, or equipment to take care of this animal... " and move on to the next person that does if there are any....


...seems simple, but when you look at all the reasons that some people are here, some are concerned about the animal life and the global impact, and others are all about the Dollar. I say lets not start with the money and start with other issues.

I STRONGLY AGREE with Jeremy. (I don't think he left Jon....so it doesn't count.)

What does everyone else say?

(Rules are ok, but I like the Pirates of the Caribbean definition of "The Code"... it just a bunch of suggestions on the way to have things handled.... So lets go that way..) There not law, but preference concerning the way things should be handled while here in our neck of the woods. In accounting, we have GAAP... "Generally Accepted Accounting Principals" They are not LAW, but after everyong follows them, we can tell who fits here and who is just passing through.

 

[jmkarcz]

Sorry Jeremy, I got long again.

 

[intricable]

I am fond of "the pirate code" of the fox valley reefers. However, I do think there will be a problem electing or deciding on a committee board to make decisions for the group. By doing so, you inadvertently WILL be deciding on president, vice president etc as the roles of the committee board develop.

Instead, would it be a reasonable assumption that voting members of the FVRC to follow a simple guideline. 1) post to become a member on the forum (with a full tank shot for accountability?) 2) attend a meeting 3) have -x- many posts under their belt.

With this simple set of steps, the new people will be formally introduced members of the club and can start participating in the clubs politics. When an issues arises, I would find it reasonable that either a poll on RC or a meeting debate would be appropriate for hammering out the details. Those who wish to be active in the policy making can participate as deemed necessary and the club retains its laid back atmosphere.

 

[RCS]

Having been a member of many clubs, starting my own, etc. etc., I'd like to see the club formalized someday. Is it necessary? Probably not, but what is? The Knoxville club is very similar to ours and goes through some minor pains every year (nobody wants to be president!), but the club runs well and people take their turns. Any changes are made by the majority, and the officers have a defined set of obligations. Does it always work out? Of course not...but nothing really does.

I'm fine with the club the way it is right now as well, I just think we're limiting ourselves to a lot of things by having such an informal structure.

 

[MSU Fan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14634989#post14634989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmkarcz
I spoke briefly with Jeremy this evening about something very simple... When a member puts a bit of LIVE stock up for free or for sale, should the first person to respond automatically be entitled to it??? or should the seller be allowed to be able to decide..."Gee.. this person does not have the expertise or the tank, or equipment to take care of this animal... " and move on to the next person that does if there are any....

I agree that this one is tough to answer - I'm fairly positive that just about everyone on the board works, so first come/first serve isn't the most democratic way (read: Eric). Sorry Eric, I'm on a roll today. Back to it though, especially with livestock I feel that it is up to the seller's discretion to choose the best home after a time of allowing people to "bid" for it. If it is a trade of some type, it is completely up to the trader/seller to choose the trade that benefits them the most - and that doesn't have to be first come/first serve.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14634989#post14634989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmkarcz
(Rules are ok, but I like the Pirates of the Caribbean definition of "The Code"... it just a bunch of suggestions on the way to have things handled.... So lets go that way..) There not law, but preference concerning the way things should be handled while here in our neck of the woods. In accounting, we have GAAP... "Generally Accepted Accounting Principals" They are not LAW, but after everyone follows them, we can tell who fits here and who is just passing through.

Geez, a pirate reference and no "Arrgghh!" on the end. Sad.

I nominate J to be the person who has to say "Argh" after every new code/rule is agreed to! Everyone agree? Ok J, time to do your new duty!

As for the overall plan - there might be another option. We have talked a lot about the handling and use of money. Perhaps the informality of the current club combined with fund-raising for swaps/trips/speakers is less formal but still acceptable way. Of course, it's still the handling of money, so there needs to be consensus on whom that should be - so I also like the committee idea. I'm in either way.

 

[siropa]

Fred,

In the clubs you've been in that were organized, what benefits did you see to the formal organization? Did you arrange group buys? shared equipment? speakers? something that hasn't been mentioned in the discussion yet?

 

[ZOKU]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14634989#post14634989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmkarcz
When a member puts a bit of LIVE stock up for free or for sale, should the first person to respond automatically be entitled to it??? or should the seller be allowed to be able to decide..."Gee.. this person does not have the expertise or the tank, or equipment to take care of this animal... " and move on to the next person that does if there are any....

I think first come, first served is normal. If it doesn't work that way, what would be the point in posting a thread in the first place? If the seller in question already has a buyer in mind who knows he/she would like the frag (or whatever)... then they should just proceed to PM that individual privately.

Also... I think the discretion of who gets what or which tank gets the frag for sale is also pretty biased. I mean, for example...

If a person is selling a frag of whatever... and I post up and say I want them with cash in hand. Does that mean they're going to say, "Oh gosh, Scott... I don't know? I don't think they would look very good in your little tiny pico tank. I'm going to see if Joe Blow wants them instead. He's been in the hobby a year and three months longer than you have."

I'm being facetious but you get the point.

 

[sunfish11]

As for the overall plan - there might be another option. We have talked a lot about the handling and use of money. Perhaps the informality of the current club combined with fund-raising for swaps/trips/speakers is less formal but still acceptable way. Of course, it's still the handling of money, so there needs to be consensus on whom that should be - so I also like the committee idea. I'm in either way.

You can't make money without filing taxes. Thus the problem with it if we decide not to Incorporate.



Lisa

 

[jandlms]

From some current problems my daughter's school PTO is experiencing, I can also relate that any monies we would "earn" from an auction or a frag swap would have to be counted as income (i.e income tax filing) and be charged WI sales tax (as well as being reported to the state dept. of revenue). The option that I am sure that is running around in everyone's mind is to file for non-profit status. Thsi would take year's and probably not end up working as "clubs" have a difficult time gaining status as a 501 c3 organization. Doable but time consuming and difficult.
As a final note, are we not jumping the gun just a bit with this discussion as the poll seems overwhelmingly in favor of not formalizing the club????????

 

[ZOKU]

When does the poll close?

It seems those in favor of formalizing the club continue posting new threads explaining all of the pros...

 

[sunfish11]

What is wrong with letting them state their case? I actually voted not to formalize at this time.

Lisa

 

[Aquabucket]

I still don't get what the big deal is. A majority of members here like the current status of the club. We can do all the things mentioned with-out having to waste time on political structure or status.

If someone wants to bring in a speaker propose it to the group. Personally I do not think there is a big interest for it. If someone wants to propose a frag swap I say go for it. I am sure we can all figure out how to get one set-up if we really want to. If people want to participate on a proposed event let them vote on it. If there needs to be money generated for it let the person who is organizing the event control it or someone who may volunteer their services. There have been group buys already using this structure.

I think bloated bylaws and mission statements can also be a waste of time. Just keep it basic. If you want to trade or sell a frag to only hobbyists you think can care for it than say so in your thread. If you want to sell the frag to the first person who responds then say so in the thread. I have not really seen a tank owner in this club yet that can't care for their corals. If its an SPS or a high light demanding coral than say so. If the buyer can't meet those needs then tell them.

This club was started with the simple idea of getting to meet people in the area and share experiences in the hobby. The main focus being able to see other hobbyists tanks in person and a chance to share your own within the community. Its initial mission was never for commercial gain or being a commercial entity.

We are also very fortunate to have members in the group that volunteer their efforts for the benefit of others. We all know who they are and its great to have members like this. I think a formal structure will diminish this aspect with-in the club. I like the fact that in this club that everyone is on equal footing. I feel that keeping it this way will help it survive long term and makes it somewhat unique and appealing to its members.

Simply put I don't think this club is ready for big changes or a more structured format. Just look at the number of votes that were cast above.

 

[jhildebrand]

Please, please, please NO on the formal club. there are just a few pros and tons of cons to the formal status. this is my only recreational hobby and formal clubs are tons of work for those most involved. never mind that any kind of a board will inevitably have ego and popularity contest issues and/or people that begrudgingly fill roles because they need to be filled. formalization will surely cause another group to form to get back to the simple life. there is no reason this club would ever have to handle money and deal with bylaws, etc...

anything the club wants to do can easily be decided by the majority via a simple poll, as we've been doing here. clearly a formal club setup would be going against the grain right now.