Should I Raise Temperature For Summer?

[downhillbiker]

Tell me if I am way off base, but I usually have my tank around 79-80 degrees and was thinking that if I raise the temperature, when it gets hot in the summer it will be less of a difference in temperature, and therefor less shock for the fish and corals. I was thinking of raising it to about 83 degrees.

What does everyone think?

 

[kau_cinta_ku]

if your temp tank raises during the summer due to the heat, then it is just going to raise even more if you raise it up further.

so lets say last summer your tank was running at 79 degrees. then on hot days it raised to 83 degrees due to the temp outside. that is a 4 degree raise.

now lets say you set your tank to run at 83 degrees it is still going to raise the temp of your tank the 4 degrees due to temp outside so now your looking at 87 degrees. ouch.

if your temps are really that bad I suggest adding some fans on the sump to keep the tank cooler. also lower the temp in the house from the air conditioner, if those don't work then your stuck getting a chiller.

 

[snorvich]

Agree with above but would add that stability is always best. While corals in the wild (e.g. Fiji) have winter and summer AVERAGE temperatures that differ by 4 degrees or more, on a given day, the temperature swing is much less. I would recommend trying to keep the tank around 79 degrees year round and using fans or a chiller to insure that the swing is +/- 1 degree.

 

[xJake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12582968#post12582968 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kau_cinta_ku
if your temp tank raises during the summer due to the heat, then it is just going to raise even more if you raise it up further.

so lets say last summer your tank was running at 79 degrees. then on hot days it raised to 83 degrees due to the temp outside. that is a 4 degree raise.

now lets say you set your tank to run at 83 degrees it is still going to raise the temp of your tank the 4 degrees due to temp outside so now your looking at 87 degrees. ouch.

if your temps are really that bad I suggest adding some fans on the sump to keep the tank cooler. also lower the temp in the house from the air conditioner, if those don't work then your stuck getting a chiller.

The above is simply not how heat works. In the summer the tank temperature will rise to the ambient room temperature. If that so happens to be 83F then his tank will reach a max of 83F. If he raises the temp on his heater to 83F (or w/e the ambient room temp. is) then the tank temperature can go no higher. Unless his tank is in direct sunlight then there is no reason why it would go anywhere near 87F is the ambient room temp is lower.

To the original poster:
If you're looking to keep your tank stable and that is how you want to run your tank then by all means raise the controller on your heater to the ambient room temperature. I do not advocate stability within a reef aquarium as in the wild temperatures can vary as much as 8F per day. All the tanks I have run have had rather large temperature swings throughout the day (approx. 79F - 84F) and everything seems to thrive. If I were you I would simply wait until it heats up outside, see how your tank inhabitants respond to the temperature swings and respond accordingly. If there is an adverse reaction then by all means stabilize the temp, but I think you'll find that your animals will not be phased by the small swing in temp.

 

[greenbean36191]

Stability is NOT always best and does not replicate the conditions in nature. The norm is about 3-6 degrees of change per day with some reefs seeing as much as 15 degrees. It's probably even more than that, but there's not a lot of high resolution temp data. The few studies that have been done have shown that minute to minute changes are often as much as half of the yearly variation. There are very few reefs that see an average yearly range of only 4 degrees.

Reef animals are well adapted to fluctuating temperatures and there's absolutely no evidence that fluctuations are stressful, except to animals that have previously been acclimatized to stable temps. In fact, fluctuations are important in modulating the tolerance to thermal stress. Captivity doesn't change that. Keeping your animals in unnaturally stable conditions does them no favors.

This is one the things I work on, so it's a huge pet peeve for me to see this garbage repeated over and over.

There is nothing wrong with bumping the temp up in the summer, but like the others pointed out you're just going to increase the maximum temp rather than keep things from fluctuating as much. I would just shoot for a summer max of about 86 whether that requires you to turn the temp up or down.

 

[lancer99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12583119#post12583119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
...there's absolutely no evidence that fluctuations are stressful, except to animals that have previously been acclimatized to stable temps. ...

Greenbean,
Since many of the animals in our tanks are captive bred, and probably used to smaller temperature variations, wouldn't that argue for keeping them under the same conditions?

I would think that any animal that needs wide temperature variations would have simply died out of the captive pool, since most reefers strive for consistent temperatures.

-R

 

[Amoore311]

Aside from SPS....

I would think fish would be more sensitive to change than the coral. Fish wise there is hardly any captive bread species. Clowns and Cardinals are basically it.


My temps swing a bit, but usually not more than 4 Degrees. I'm hoping to keep that lower once I install a fan to blow across the sump and get the air moving in the cabinet.

 

[useskaforevil]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12583113#post12583113 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xJake
The above is simply not how heat works. In the summer the tank temperature will rise to the ambient room temperature. If that so happens to be 83F then his tank will reach a max of 83F. If he raises the temp on his heater to 83F (or w/e the ambient room temp. is) then the tank temperature can go no higher. Unless his tank is in direct sunlight then there is no reason why it would go anywhere near 87F is the ambient room temp is lower

he might have been wrong with the scaling, but i think you are very confused. of course the tank can go higher than the ambient room temperature. or what the heater is set to, because at all times my tank is around 80 and my room is around 73.

a tank of 80 degrees in a 70 degree room is constantly being cooled by the 70degree room. if you allowed the room temp to get up to 80 degrees the tank would no longer be cooled by the room and the temperature of the tank would increase. how much though is dependent on too many things to say.

 

[greenbean36191]

No. The lack of fluctuation is never going to kill any animal as long as temperatures stay normal. The previous temp regime becomes important if the temperature ever becomes elevated or varies more than normal.

It's not something that can be bred out in captivity. For the purposes of the hobby, the ability or inability to tolerate thermal stress isn't a matter of heredity. It's a product of acclimatization and the inherent ability is retained regardless of how long the animals have been in captivity. For the most part it's just a matter of turning on or turning off the production of certain proteins depending on the environment.

 

[jimwat]

I think what everyone is trying to say is to just try to keep your min/max temps in a safe range. And, that any swings in the tank temperature during the day caused by the changes in the ambient room temperature will be gradual and will not harm your animals.

As far as determining what the "natural" temperature swings on a given reef, I imagine that the depth and location of the reef have a lot to do with this. I am guessing that the natural habitat of fish that live on deeper reefs are not normally subjected to large daily changes.

 

[sirreal63]

It's funny how the temp thing always gets confused with stability. Temp stability is not the same thing as constant temperature. I intentionally let my temps swing on a daily basis. The corals are acclimated to this swing so if I have an unusually hot day they can handle it and don't bleach. That is a stable temp swing and is not harmful. A constant temp can be harmful because the corals are not acclimated to a swing in temps and when something happens to cause a temp change they do not handle it as well.

I have my chiller set not to maintain a temp, but to prevent too high of a temp.

 

[xJake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12583835#post12583835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by useskaforevil
he might have been wrong with the scaling, but i think you are very confused. of course the tank can go higher than the ambient room temperature. or what the heater is set to, because at all times my tank is around 80 and my room is around 73.

a tank of 80 degrees in a 70 degree room is constantly being cooled by the 70degree room. if you allowed the room temp to get up to 80 degrees the tank would no longer be cooled by the room and the temperature of the tank would increase. how much though is dependent on too many things to say.

Your first paragraph gives no real proof to support your side of the argument as your tank would never be at 73F because you are heating it in someway in order to sustain tropical lifeforms.
And in the second paragraph, If an 80F tank is in a 70F room then yes the ambient room temperature would cause cooling. When the ambient room temperature then rises to 80F this cooling effect no longer ensues, however, the heating effect from the heater in the tank no longer ensues either. Heaters are designed so that they turn on when the water goes below a certain temp and turn off when it goes above that temp. If the heater is set to 80F and the ambient room temp. rises to 80F then the heater will simply shut off. The tank will stay at the 80F mark and no additional rise in temperature will ensue. It's basic thermodynamics, something I learned in about the 6th grade.

 

[sirreal63]

Did you learn in 6th grade that there are other factors increasing the heat in a tank? Small things like lighting, pumps and powerheads? These are what heats the tank and are no different than a heater.

Your argument has no relationship to the thread.

 

[useskaforevil]

alot of people do not even use heaters, especially when their lights are on. don't feel bad you'll learn more in 7th grade.

 

[downhillbiker]

now i dont think that is fair. xjake has a point, the heater (and other parts) heat the tank, but when the tank and room are at equal temperatures the heater will turn off, but the other "heaters" such as light and powerheads, keep on heating, but at what rate?

greenbean:
i agree with your perspective that we should mimic what happens on the reef. i had no idea that the reefs fluctuated so much. now that i know that, i should try to do this in my tank, within the safe parameters. even if the corals are aquacultured, they have spent millions of years adapting to temperature swings, so even with a stable environment for many years, i would imagine that they could/should easily adapt to the natural temperature swings.

so i think the SPS are probably my least tolerant organisms, so what is safe? i had it get up to 86 last week and everything looks fine.

i have a couple AC units that i am installing today. and already have fans on the tank to help keep it cool.

 

[downhillbiker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12584904#post12584904 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by useskaforevil
alot of people do not even use heaters, especially when their lights are on. don't feel bad you'll learn more in 7th grade.

well then a lot of people are stupid. what if they have a cold night and the tank drops to 65 degrees. the heater is your safety net on the bottom end of the spectrum. even if you dont use it to maintain a temperature, you should use it to keep you minimum temperature from plunging to unsafe levels.

sorry you have to insult people about their 6th and 7th grade educations, because obviously yours was top notch.

 

[sirreal63]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12584947#post12584947 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by downhillbiker
now i dont think that is fair. xjake has a point, the heater (and other parts) heat the tank, but when the tank and room are at equal temperatures the heater will turn off, but the other "heaters" such as light and powerheads, keep on heating, but at what rate?

The rate is simple...add the wattage of the devices running. Return pump at 50 watts is a 50 watt heater. (yes it is more complicated than that.) The difference is the rate of cooling from the ambient temp may be higher than the wattage of the devices heating the water. So even though you have heat from the equipment, the tank cools from from room temp and moreso if you have a fan running over the tank.

Jake is correct in that the heater is to prevent a low temp, which is it's purpose. Of course none of this relates too much to your original question. It is ok to have some temp fluctuations, some of us do it intentionally, just don't do it w/o allowing proper acclimation to fluctuations.

 

[Hingeback]

It is my understanding that if you are running your tank at 79 degress in the winter your heater is not necessarily the thing that is heating the tank to that temp by itself. Pumps and lights are also contributing. As the room temp is lower, to some extent this has a cooling effect on the pumps and the lights generated heat.

So on a warm summers day your tank will eventually warm to roughly the room temp. But you still have the lights and pumps that are still producing heat therefore the water temp must rise.
As the room temp is same as tank then the water does not have the same cooling effect therefore temp in tank rises.

An easy experiment is leave your tank without light on for 1 day and take temp at beginning of day and at various points during the day.
Next day put light as usual there will be a definate increase in temp between the two.
Try also knocking a pump or two off for a day and test. I guarentee there will be a difference in temp.
Do these on warm summers day when no heater is required.

 

[useskaforevil]

the at what rate part is why i said the scale was wrong in my original post. question my education but i've been right about everything in this thread so far.

also, people who don't use heaters usually have bigger or smaller systems, and houses that don't fluctuate in temperature that much. my apartment never leaves the 68-74 degree range. so worst case scenario, my tank would get to that, but of course it doesent, because of lighting, and pumps. (power outtages don't cont because a heater would fail as well)

also one of the most catastrophic faliures you can have in a tank is your heater staying on, which is why some people don't use them.

i also have a nano tank that never has a heater in it because the lights keep it at around 82 during the day and it falls to about 78 at night. a heater would only be important if the lights were dead for a long period of time.

just to back this all up with someone who definatly knows what they're talking about, this is from melevsreef.com "but the small pump seems to be generating enough heat to remove the need for a heater whatsoever" http://www.melevsreef.com/pico.html

if you had a nano with a heater that failed the whole thing would be toast.

 

[greenbean36191]

I am guessing that the natural habitat of fish that live on deeper reefs are not normally subjected to large daily changes.

Nope, it's actually the reverse in most places that have been studied. It takes a whole lot of energy to heat water, so except in shallow lagoons where the water ponds for a while there's not much of a diurnal heating/cooling pattern. Water coming up from deeper and washing over the reef actually has a much bigger influence. Generally the first 90-120 ft are considered well mixed, meaning there's no real drop in average temp over that depth, but the fluctuation usually increases with depth. In areas near lagoons that are flushed tidally there can be similar amounts of fluctuation all the way down to the thermocline.

so i think the SPS are probably my least tolerant organisms, so what is safe? i had it get up to 86 last week and everything looks fine.

Well that may or may not be true depending on which SPS you have. 86 is a safe maximum for just about anything in the hobby, still allowing for a margin of error, assuming everything has been kept under normal conditions previously. As long as you keep it in between 76 and 86 you shouldn't have any worries.