Should I

B

BLEEDSALT

New member
Okay, water changes, and more changes, and even more changes have yet to pull my Nitrates down. I'm talking 2 bags of salt worth of changing. I have the Spaghetti macro, should I put it in my fluval or leave it in my tank? I can pull the filters out of the canister, and have an open space where the macro will fit. Also anyones opinion would help with this one, Who thinks the sponge filters in the canister are bad? Thanks guys.
Chris
 
The sponge filters and any other filters are probably where your Nitrates are at. Your tank didn't get that way over night and your not going to fix it over night. It takes time and alot of work to correct them
 
How much water are you changing? If your levels are very high try changing more at a time. I agree with joey if you have a canister filter and other sponges ect thats probably your problem. Sponges and wetdrys just pump out nitrates.
 
Macroalgae need light to photosynthesize and take up nutrients in the water. Putting them in a canister filter will not help since no light will reach them.

If you clean your sponge frequently, you are not going to have an issue with it. However, most people don't clean canister filter often. You can use it empty to circulate water with it, but a strong powerhead is a better option for that. You can run a bag of activated carbon and a bag of phosphate remover in it, but the bag of activated carbon has to be pulled out in a week or so since it loses its effectiveness and simply turns into a biological filter media. Nitrifying bacteria will colonize it and process ammonia and nitrite for you, but you will end up with the end product (guess what - nitrate :( . )

You need to do a large water changes back to back. You can change 30% at a time everyday without any problem. This is the easiest and cheapest method to get rid of nitrate.

What kind of substrate do you have in your tank? Is it crushed coral by any chance? They can trap a lot of detritus and become a nitrate factory. Is this a fish only tank? Do you feed your fish a lot of food?

How high is your nitrate actually? Although I recommend that you investigate the underlying cause of your nitrate problem to eliminate it, if you are really impatient about it, you can actually chemically reduce nitrate by adding a minute amount of vodka (0.1 ml for 100 liters of water) and gradually increase the dose. You need to be very careful about dosing since it can cause a severe bacteria bloom if you go too fast. Vodka can be substituted with table sugar.

You can also get a bottle of AZ-NO3 and follow the manufacturer's instruction.

Tomoko
 
OKay, I have seen the sugar method and vodka method on websites. I have 3 power heads on the right side and a skimmer on the left of my tank. The return of the canister is also on the right. My middle power head is a sweeper, so it swirls the water nicely IMO. I have tried the method of making 20 gallons, and draining 10 and adding 10 back from that 30, if that makes sense. Okay my livestock includes 3 damsels and 1 spotted puffer, Kenya tree, Xenia, 4 mushrooms one is a large bullseye, about 50 or so Palythoas, and I recently (Thursday) put a head of Frogspawn and a head of Hammer. I feed half a square of Bloodworms and half a block of mysis every other day. Not to ramble on but I was thinking about this last night. If I got another canister, it would be a 305 and had it to the right of my other one with a fuge in the middle would that be a bad idea? Thanks all.
Chris
 
Canister filters dont help with nitrates. In most cases they cause Nitrate problems. I wouldn't add another. I wouldn't even use the one you have now except to run carbon from time to time . And I mean for like a few days then take it back off.
When you do a water change simply drain 10-30% of your tanks water pour it out then refill the tank with New saltwater. Don't mix the old water with the new.
Feeding a cube of food every other day isn't real bad. For only having Four fish though thats kind of a lot.
 
I got the idea of the 20 gallon 30 gallon off a web site. It suggested dilution is the solution. Only solution I found was 20 dollars of salt down my tub drain. What if I pull the fabric media and leave my media rings in? I like how the fluval has a good GPH. I dunno, my corals thank goodness are not killing over, just not running wild. No death is great, but no progress is a bummer.
 
Just like Tomoko said above "Nitrifying bacteria will colonize it and process ammonia and nitrite for you, but you will end up with the end product (guess what - nitrate . )" This is how the media works in a canister filter. Great for a fish only when you dont have LR. But for a Reef tank this type of filter ends up just causing Nitrate problems.
 
You can use your canister filter without any media (no floss or ring) to create water flow in you tank. It is like having a powerhead.

It takes a fresh new look at things when you convert from an older method that utilizes a canister filter or a wet/dry filter to a newer Berlin system type method.

Back in 90's a lot of people put up quite a resistant to throw away undergravel filters and canister filters initially. They had a hard time believing that live rocks and a skimmer combination can keep tanks clean when there are so much gunk trapped in the filters. However, the gunk is the cause of the nitrate problem. Modern Berlin system works in the opposite way to that in a way. It keeps the impurities suspended in water with a lot of water flow and lets the skimmer process the impurities before they decay and turn into materials that can be broken down to generate nitrate.

Tomoko
 
Okay. I see what you mean. I have had SW fish for a while but just recently got to the point of wanting a few corals. My first attempt was a disaster. So after research and sucking up the loss I restarted my tank. So what I have read about the canister denitrate system, with the air tube and bio balls, is that not a true thing, or will it work to keep water in check? Also does anyone think I can attach my fluval output on the intake of the coil?
Chris
 
You need a very slow flow through the denitrator. Your fluval is probably too fast.

Did you see the sulfar denitrator in this thread?

From what I understand, it takes a lot of tweaking to keep it working.


Tomoko
 
Few questions.

Do you have Live Rock how much?

Do you have a sand bed if so how deep?

Water where are you getting your water top off and to mix saltwater?
 
I have about 130 pounds of LR and 3" sand bed, well some a little high or low, depends on where the fish decide to move it. For some reason the like to make borrows under the rock. I can't say that all is LR though. When I restarted my tank, I put fresh water in, so I could make a spotted puffer SW, I have had it up and running again since September, and I know it takes time for the bacteria to form, so that may have some to do with it, and I have a big ball of Spaghetti in the tank also. Plus my snails and blue leg crabs. about 6 of each. Oh yeah can we make plugs on fish stores on this site?
 
So your rock was in freshwater in September. If its only been going 4 months and you started with Base rock and you have been using a Canister with the media I'm pretty sure thats why your at the point you are. If thats the case I would say take the canister filter off line all together. Maybe add a small new piece of LR or maybe even just some rubble to help seed some more bacteria. If your nitrates are above 20ppm do some more water changes to get them down then just sit back and wait a little while. Sounds like your tank never really finished cycling to me. If your rock was all dead it takes a good couple months for it to even get established and thats with out a Wetdry running and with some Fresh LR to seed the base.
 
Yeah that was my thought and fear. since I restarted the tank I have picked up about 7 pounds of cured LR. One piece was kinda flat and a lot of nice craters and holes. and a few others with small Coralline. I am not as bad as some believe it or not, I know I can't start a tank and have all the neat stuff within a few months. I have seen people do that method and throw a few grand down the drain, (literally). I guess that would be flush. Oh well, I removed the sponges and the return started blowing like crazy right on some rocks, and my power heads are right next to that so I have some oxygen getting to the tank. You guys have been a lot of help so far, and I don't really feel like it bothers anyone to help.
Chris
 
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