SI or Onyx Percs?

[WaffleWalffle22]

I bought some clowns from an LFS 8 months back as Ocellaris. They were just wee little babies, not even having all of their stripes. I paid $15 for each. Over a few months, they grew, and as they grew they started to turn black. The male is completely black except for all of his fins and his face. They were identified as SI True Percs, and I can see how the male is a SI, but the female looks more like an onyx to me. There was no fighting when they were little, one was just bigger than the other. They never went through a submissive stage, and in the 8 months I've had them have only seen the male do his dance once. The female is 2 times larger than the male, possibly even 2.5 times larger. Anyways, I have a few questions.

1. Does SI stand for Solomon Islands? If not, what does it mean?
2. Can Onyx and SI pair? Do you think this is the case?
3. Is the male just a really black onyx or is the female just a really orange SI?

Here are some pictures. The male is the one with the most black in a picture by himself. The female is the clownfish on the left in the other picture. She is staring at the male.
Please give your IDs and your ideas.
Thanks!

 

[oceancube1]

wow they look like occy's to me... not sure, i ve seen some really dark occy's here in my lfs lately... and yes si means soloman islands

 

[clowns101]

SI Percula clownfish have been taken from SI and have looked just like a lower grade onyx.So really I dont see a diffirence between SI Perculas or Onyx clownfish.The only diffirece I can think of is real true Onyx will have a little bit more black and plus alot of Onyx are captive breed where as if you get a real true SI pair they wouold be most likly wild.They are the same sp. so they can pair.

So Im going to say they are Onyx clowns.

Anything else I can help with?

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

No, that's the only question I had. My local reef club has identified them as SI. However in the store they were called Orange Ocellaris (at which point they looked like baby orange Ocellaris) and the store claimed they were tank raised from some breeder. Not being Orange Ocellaris also leads me to believe they may have been the babies of a wild pair that were collected soon after the babies passed larval stage. In that case, it would again bring up the question, is the female a SI with little black, or is the male an onyx with a lot of black. But if you're positively identifying them as Onyx, which would be the more likely scenario, then I'll go with Onyx. The Onyx and SI look very similar, but I guess since the female looks like an Onyx, then the male would probably be an Onyx also, so I'll call them Onyx. Thank you for all the help!

 

[clowns101]

I dont want to sound rude,but theres really no way to say "Yes its a SI Percula".Or "Yes its an Onyx".Really its the persons own taste.C-quest marines considers their fish to be Onyx only if they are seeing alot of Black coloration after meta.But while others will consider their fish Onyx with the Black coloration coming in at 1 1/2 inch or so.

So to my taste Im going to call them Onyx because the Black coloration in the male is from the Mid way bar to the Head bar.I will aslo consider the female Onyx because she has alot of potential to color up to be a very Black clownfish.

 

[ocellaris123]

Can you get more pictures up? To me they look like ocellaris.

 

[WDLV]

Onyx refers to a particular line of fish that probably originated in Solomon Islands. This is a sore subject for a few people and the answers will vary slightly depending on who you ask.

Here's my analogy... "Ping pong" is not a game. It's a trade name that became popular in the early 1900s. Table tennis is the game marketed under the trade name "Ping Pong" but it doesn't keep the average Joe from calling table tennis "Ping Pong."

Melanistic A. perculas that originate in SI, PNG (and probably other locations) are still melanistic perculas but a lot of people call them "onyx" after the Bill Addison line that made them popular in much the same way that table tennis is commonly referred to as "Ping Pong."

So, "onyx" clowns are SI perculas but SI perculas are not necessarily "onyx." Just don't expect the average person buying or discussing them to know what the difference is as the terms have come to be used (albeit incorrectly) interchangeably.

 

[clowns101]

Thats what Im trying to say!Thanks Walt for the "fancy talk"...lol

 

[oceancube1]

Can you get more pictures up? To me they look like ocellaris.

thats what i thought

 

[WDLV]

Thats what Im trying to say!Thanks Walt for the "fancy talk"...lol

:beer:

Can you get more pictures up? To me they look like ocellaris.

My first impression was that they were another ocellaris/percula hybrid because they exhibit traits of both. ie: the fins of black ocellaris are not orange in any case but those are not the eyes of A. percula.

For comparison; These are WC black ocellaris.

OP's

These are female WC SI perc and a male CB SI perc.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Oh so now I understand. Onyx are a type of SI, but SI aren't Onyx. Just like a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't a square!

 

[ocellaris123]

Their was a pic on here (I think) of an ocellaris which was similiar color to those. I think the term "sunset ocellaris" comes to mind. If they were in fact bred by a breeder I think they would have charge the LFS more if they were indeed SI onyx clowns or even A. perculas, which than would have meant you get charged more. This is assuming the fact that the breeder even knows what species they were breeding.

The possibility of a hybrid is their too as WLDV said. They kind of have a "Photon" clown look.

 

[NCSUsalt]

to me it looks more like you got a black/orange ocellaris cross that hadn't colored up yet, especially if you got them when they didn't even have their full stripes yet. they don't look like true percula to me.

 

[massman]

Guys also please be aware that "onyx" perculas as also quite abundant off the west coast of PNG. (And elsewhere around the island)
I personally have seen hundreds of them whilst diving.

I do not know if you guys in the states import from PNG or not though?

If so, not all "onyx" percs are from the SI.

 

[clowns101]

Yes we Import from PGN.But we cant say that all Onyx arent from the blood line of PNG or SI.As far as we know his fish could be from either place,but MOST LIKLY they are captive.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Thanks for all of the information guys, but I think I'm going to have to agree with clowns101. I'm 100% sure that the male is not a black Ocellaris. I believe this because when baby Black Ocellaris are juveniles they are orange for a good while, and then the orange slowly fades to black. In this process, the clownfish becomes brown, and my male never turned brown, though the black just "spread". They get along perfectly, which means that if the female is percula which she is, then the male must also be percula. The female looks most like an onyx to me, so I'm assuming the males is also an onyx. I've seen onyx pair that are all black except for the face and all of the fins, and I've seen onyx that look like the female. The female grows a lot quicker than the male, so I assume the female's black pigment in the scale has to spread more since she is growing fast and it is taking the black pigment longer since she is growing so fast. The male's black scale pigment is growing at the same speed, and since he doesn't grow much his black pigment is coming in darker and quicker since he is smaller. Overall, I'm going to say that these are Onyx Percula. :beer: