Sick clowns?

[kelp47]

Below are a couple photos I just took of the smaller fish. His right side, toward the front is where his worst injury was.

I just stopped by my lfs and asked if he had had anyone mentioned ick on their clownfish in the past month--he said no. When I explained the situation, he asked if it could be a virus, and I started reconsidering lympho...

I really don't know what to think. If it's lympho, I just need to keep the stress down, vitamins up, and water clean. If it's ich, I need to start CP tonight so it doesn't get out of control.

They do scratch on occasion, but not constantly, and they still eat readily.

 

[kelp47]

... and the big one this morning...

 

[kelp47]

I moved the clowns to the 10 gallon QT tonight and started their CP treatment. I'm going to watch them closely to make sure the spots go away quickly and it's not lympho.

 

[ThRoewer]

Lympocystis caused the fish's cells to enlarge vastly. And it is not just one affected cell but almost always clusters. So you would see significantly larger cauliflower like "growths" instead of single, evenly sized small spots. See here: Lymphocystis Disease in Fish

This doesn't look like Lymphocystis but rather like textbook Cryptocaryon.
It's beyond me why TTM failed to clean the fish within the first week. A few parasites slipping through undetected is one thing but the treatment failing this spectacular is mind boggling.
I'm also very skeptical that it is Amyloodinium - it would look different and for sure smaller.

CP should show quick results. If not you may consider a 100% water change, including thorough tank and equipment sterilization and then give another full dose.
If that doesn't work I'm pretty much out of ideas (well there would still be hyposalinity)

 

[Deinonych]

Agree with ThRoewer. Looks like Crypto, and I'm baffled why TTM has utterly failed for you.

 

[kelp47]

Yeah, I know I was grasping with Lympho. I agree it does look like ick, so I continued with the plan. They seem to feel fine this morning. They did eat, but not quite as eagerly as usual--I contribute that to having less lighting.

I haven't shined the flashlight in yet to look for spots. I'll do that after they have a little more time to eat the food off the bottom of the tank.

Thanks again, and happy 4th!

 

[kelp47]

WOW! This stuff is incredible! Most if not all of the spots are gone after just one night! The lighting in the room is very dim, but the LED flashlight usually lights up the salt grains pretty well. All I saw were some small faded spots on the smaller fish, which may be left from his injury a few weeks back--I need to check on that. But I'm very impressed. I'm still going to keep the meds in the tank for 21 days as instructed, but I doubt I'll have to do any large water changes or anything. I have three pre-measured doses to mix up one gallon of medicated water. So once I use these up and if nothing reappears, I may not worry about replacing any water with medicated water (such as when I siphon out waste and leftover food).

 

[kelp47]

Day 4: All is still well! Still no spots, and their skin looks beautiful. Their fins are still just a tiny bit ragged, as they had become before beginning treatment. But they are certainly no worse, and there is no sign of any kind of infection.

I have not had to dose any Prime since ammonia is still in check. I have been diligent in removing waste and uneaten food. I am approaching one gallon of removed water, so I will likely add back one gallon of medicated water tomorrow morning.

Can I add stress coat to the water as a precaution, without any adverse side affects?

 

[ThRoewer]

I don't know how StressGuard might interact with CP.
I would recommend not doing any experiments as long as the fish look and behave ok.

 

[kelp47]

Day 7, and I'm seeing a couple of issues with the smaller fish.

1) I have noticed some erratic movements: scratching/flashing, and shaking of the head. He also does a strange thing where it looks like he's coughing or sneezing. He shutters his mouth/face/gill area. It's strange. I think these things actually started yesterday, but I thought he was just acting weird while they were eating.

I have pulled out 92 oz of water in my cleanings since I last added one gallon of medicated water, so I should be adding back another gallon of medicated water tomorrow. Maybe a slight refresher on the meds will help.

2) He also has a white spot on him that does not look like ich (just behind the middle white band). Is this some sort of infection? If so, I have some Kanaplex on hand, and I believe I read where another RC member has used it with CP.

I'm including four photos because it looks different in every one. And you actually can't even really see it in the second one even though it was in the same burst of photos as the first. I don't know what to make of that.

 

[kelp47]

The clown is looking worse this afternoon. Now he is very lethargic, trying to wedge himself under one of the PVC elbows. I got nervous before I left this morning, so I went ahead and did the one gallon (12.5%) water change with medicated saltwater, but it doesn't seem to have worked. I have no idea what I should do. I thought about setting up the second QT and putting them both in unmedicated water in case that's the problem, but I really don't know if that would be beneficial... Any ideas???

 

[kelp47]

The clown is looking worse this afternoon. Now he is very lethargic, trying to wedge himself under one of the PVC elbows. I got nervous before I left this morning, so I went ahead and did the one gallon (12.5%) water change with medicated saltwater, but it doesn't seem to have worked. I have no idea what I should do. I thought about setting up the second QT and putting them both in unmedicated water in case that's the problem, but I really don't know if that would be beneficial... Any ideas???

... but it's possible he was just resting since I've been keeping the lights off and no one has been in that room for several hours.... he's swimming a bit now, so I'm going to monitor him shortly and see if the erratic movements have abated.

 

[kelp47]

I just watched them for a bit, and the smaller fish must have been resting, because he started swimming around just fine once I turned the lights on.

I am still seeing some darting by both of them. It's not constant, but it is consistent enough that I'll see it a few times during a 15-minute observation. I then fed them, and they ate very enthusiastically as usual.

Here is what I'm seeing now:
-They are still darting as described in post #70 (it's both, not just the smaller one).
-The smaller still has the white spot on him--it seems unchanged, and no others have appeared.
-They are swimming around fine, eating well, no clamped fins or gulping at the surface.

The ammonia level seems to have reached somewhere between 0 and 0.05 according to the ammonia badge, which should be safe. But just to be sure, I have given a couple doses of Prime in between my one-gallon water changes.

Could the darting just be some remaining ich parasites trying to reattach? And will the meds eventually kill them? Is the white spot indication of an infection (which I understand sometimes happens with CP, though I didn't think this early)?

 

[kelp47]

They seem to be darting less today, so maybe the CP is doing its thing.
I am still concerned about the white spot on the small fish (see post #70). But I wonder if it could just be a roughed up scale. Maybe he just scratched it on something. Any thoughts?

 

[ThRoewer]

The white in those pictures are slightly infected/inflamed scales, likely due to the parasites that crawled out from under them. It will take a couple of days for those to heal completely.

Otherwise they look ich free to me.
The darting or even occasional scratching could also come from the itching of the healing process and some remaining inflammations.

 

[kelp47]

Thanks, ThRoewer. That's good to know. So the scales will likely heal on their own with no meds? I haven't dosed any yet, and the spot hasn't changed for the worse (may be slightly better?). The little one is still darting around, but seems fine other than this. And yes, they definitely have no visible signs of ich

I'm a little concerned about the larger one. She was just out swimming around and eating. I went back in the room about 30 minutes later and she's tucked in the PVC elbow, lying on the bottom. But her fins are not clamped and she seems to be breathing normally. Maybe she ate too much. I'll keep an eye on her, but hopefully she's just briefly resting, or they're just out of whack since I've been keeping the lights off outside of feeding time (about an hour each time). The tank is actually by a window, but the blinds have been completely shut since I dosed CP.

 

[ThRoewer]

My percula had the same thing with the scales and it healed within a couple of days.

For the female behaving funny - the large female of my percula pair 2 did (and still does) the same. As long as she comes out for food and then eats normal I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[kelp47]

Yes, she's been acting completely normal aside from that. I think the two have a contest going to see who can stress me out the most �� Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[ThRoewer]

Yes, she's been acting completely normal aside from that. I think the two have a contest going to see who can stress me out the most �� Thanks for the confirmation.

Believe it or not, but the laying inside a flowerpot or piece of PVC is a sign that they are bored. A naked QT is a pretty boring place for fish. That's why I usually add some Real Reef rocks.

 

[kelp47]

I've actually thought about that. I considered putting the flowerpot back in, but I didn't want it soaking up the CP. So I may just put it back in after the CP treatment while they're in their 2-week observation period. For now, I may stick in a straight pvc piece just for a change of scenery.