Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[robertifly]

Worked ok but for some reason I don't remember now I took the refuguim feed off the emer. drain and fed it in beside the larger drain which made it a hassle to change the sock when I used one. It wasn't exactly "set it and forget it" either. Here I really was wanting to follow BeanAnimal's example.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13181064#post13181064 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cpeisher
robert, i just read another 90g build thread where the OP used this Overflow System and had a T off the siphon drain that sent flow to the fuge.

Bean, as long as the end in the skimmer section and the end in the fuge are both below the water level around 1"-1.5", then you still keep the "integrity" of the silent and failsafe right?

Yup, but it may be hard to keep the system tuned, depending on what goes on in each tank. They are at different levels and those levels may fluctuate. This would change the overall head on the siphon slightly and could make it hard to keep in balance.

 

[cpeisher]

i guess that puts me back at the original plan of running a T off the return pump to feed the fuge then.

 

[StripestheEel]

Gday all,

I dont know if this is because I'm tired or just mildy "special" but I havent seen this installed on any "big tanks"

What size pvc/bulkheads are recommended for a 9'x3'x2.5' (1900L or 500G) with a 11000LPH return pump (3000GPH i think thats converted to?).

Do you also think that the 3000GPH return pump is too much for a tank that size and can be downsized to be more accommodating to this setup?

 

[AlfonsoD]

This post is to share with you my experience setting this system with some modifications made to better adapt it to my new project. My tank is about 120 gal and has an overflow installed as a “back-pack” in the rear of it. Since I want to avoid an excessive room need between the tank and the wall I drilled the base of the overflow backpack instead of the rear panel (as suggested in this thread). For this reason I use durso’s kind standpipes but following same directions of this thread; one working at full siphon, the second as open channel that is subject to become a siphon if water level raises and third as an emergency drain.
My return pump is 1900 gph and a ¾ bulk head and tubing with 1” standpipe in full siphon easily managed the flow, in fact the ball valve is set to only 33° app to raise the water level in the backpack and avoid the noise produce by the water falling from the display tank.
The little excess flow is silently managed by the open channel.
Thank you very much for this thread it helps me a LOT!

 

[AlfonsoD]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13223029#post13223029 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AlfonsoD
Hello,
This post is to share with you my experience setting this system with some modifications made to better adapt it to my new project. My tank is about 120 gal and has an overflow installed as a “back-pack” in the rear of it. Since I want to avoid an excessive room need between the tank and the wall I drilled the base of the overflow backpack instead of the rear panel (as suggested in this thread). For this reason I use durso’s kind standpipes but following same directions of this thread; one working at full siphon, the second as open channel that is subject to become a siphon if water level raises and third as an emergency drain.
My return pump is 1900 gph and a ¾ bulk head and tubing with 1” standpipe in full siphon easily managed the flow, in fact the ball valve is set to only 33° app to raise the water level in the backpack and avoid the noise produce by the water falling from the display tank.
The little excess flow is silently managed by the open channel.
Thank you very much for this thread it helps me a LOT!

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13223029#post13223029 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AlfonsoD
This post is to share with you my experience setting this system with some modifications made to better adapt it to my new project. My tank is about 120 gal and has an overflow installed as a “back-pack” in the rear of it. Since I want to avoid an excessive room need between the tank and the wall I drilled the base of the overflow backpack instead of the rear panel (as suggested in this thread). For this reason I use durso’s kind standpipes but following same directions of this thread; one working at full siphon, the second as open channel that is subject to become a siphon if water level raises and third as an emergency drain.
My return pump is 1900 gph and a ¾ bulk head and tubing with 1” standpipe in full siphon easily managed the flow, in fact the ball valve is set to only 33° app to raise the water level in the backpack and avoid the noise produce by the water falling from the display tank.
The little excess flow is silently managed by the open channel.
Thank you very much for this thread it helps me a LOT!

I am glad that it worked well for you. Yes, the system has a very large capacity when setup properly, much more so than standard standpipes of the same capacity.

 

[robertifly]

cpeisher, right now I have my return line with a tee and a valve using it to feed both phos and carbon reactors but not inline with each other, I used a Y fitting and valves to control each flow separately. The carbon reactor then feeds the refuguim.

 

[bristle]

Ok,

So I am running just under 400gph at 3/4" return.

I have a couple questions now that I have decided to finally drill the tank.

Can I use 2 1" drains here...the syphon and the standpipe, without the emergency drain? Can I get away with this because my return flow is so low? I will be matting the overflow with mattala so no snails will be able to come in and clog my drains,

Second, can I remove the ball valve on the standpipe to get away with lower costs?

I've already posted a few posts here, but hopefully someone can answer me. Thanks.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You can setup the system without the emergency drain, but you lose the fail-safe features of the setup and the auto tuning bandwidth of the setup. You will be basically using the "herbie" method.

The only standpipe that needs a ball valve is the siphon standpipe. It is needed to adjust the system flow so that it falls within the self tuning area.

 

[Donw]

Bean,

Is this something you think might work to quiet down my ZE. The box is a little loud but needs to flow about 3400 gph to be on the safe side. I can rebuild the box to have more pipes if need be.

Thanks
Don

 

[BeanAnimal]

Done, it should work like a charm if we can get enough depth to create a reliable siphon. Can you post some photos of the trough/box and other relevant areas (so I don't have to go look for that thread).

 

[Donw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13230178#post13230178 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Done, it should work like a charm if we can get enough depth to create a reliable siphon. Can you post some photos of the trough/box and other relevant areas (so I don't have to go look for that thread).

Ill draw them up. I changed it to a single big box behind the tank and went 4 sided instead of 3. I can just make a new box so we can have our way with it.

Don

 

[Donw]

Cant get a pic, its to close to the wall my hand wont fit back there. You can picture the rear gutter 2.5" x 2.5" x 53" two large openings appx 2" x 8". with a box below water just flows to the sump via two 2" pipes in the box.
I was think of replacing the box with a 3" deep x 40" long x 8" tall (could be taller).
Then installing three sets of 1" stand pipes (siphon, trickle and safe) So thats 9 one inch pipes

 

[BeanAnimal]

Then it should work very well. Place the open chanel intake at a slightly higher level than the siphon intake, so that it will force the siphon to kickstart. If you have the space to work with, I would make the open channel and emergency as large as possible. I think we can do 4000 GPH fairly easily. Remember the head is going to be less than that on a standard setup, so the siphon may be to be larger (If we need I suppose we can get out the slide rule and figure out how large it actually has to be).

Bean

 

[BeanAnimal]

Instead of 3 sets... we might be better off with 1 or 2 larger sets. The less things to blance, the more stable the system (in theory at least). I am afraid that (2) siphons would oscillate back and forth... but I could be very wrong. 1 LARGE siphon backed by several open channels would likely be more stable.

 

[cpeisher]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13223985#post13223985 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by robertifly
cpeisher, right now I have my return line with a tee and a valve using it to feed both phos and carbon reactors but not inline with each other, I used a Y fitting and valves to control each flow separately. The carbon reactor then feeds the refuguim.

This is exactly what i was thinking of doing. I was going to feed the carbon, phos, calcium, fuge and skimmer off lines from the return pump. I'm trying to make the setup as efficient as possible. I expect to have heat issue so i'm trying to reduce the amount of pumps that go in my system to a bare minimum... What do you think about running all those devices from the return line?

 

[Donw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13230527#post13230527 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Instead of 3 sets... we might be better off with 1 or 2 larger sets. The less things to blance, the more stable the system (in theory at least). I am afraid that (2) siphons would oscillate back and forth... but I could be very wrong. 1 LARGE siphon backed by several open channels would likely be more stable.

I'm picturing it like this. With a 3" box I should be able to fit a 1.5" siphon using a uniseal. Do you think 1.5" will move 3400 probably closer to 3000 but never did the math.

 

[Donw]

Found this pic before the gutter walls were installed. You can sort of see how the gutters overhang the stand. The space for the box behind the tank is a total of 4". This way I can push it right up to the wall.

 

[robertifly]

cpeisher, I think that will work fine. As a matter of fact I'm sure I've seen pics here someone doing exctly that by just making a manifold by just adding more tee's and valves to control flow.