Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[coralfragger101]

I will be making mods to my system in a couple of weeks and redoing the overflows are on the agenda.

I'll admit, I haven't read the entire thread so this may have been asked/answered somewhere already.

What's the purpose of the riser/cap on the siphon stand pipe? Seems to me that it would work without the extra parts.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The siphon standpipe will work as a simple sealed standpipe. In my setup, I built all (3) standpipes with all of the components of the "open channel" standpipe. I simply did so for the sake of versatility. I was not sure exactly what standpipe would end up providing what role. The original plans were to feed the skimmer or RDSP with one of the standpipes.

 

[coralfragger101]

Ah - OK, thanks.

 

[ace1204]

planning on using this system on my 46 gallon bow project, my sump is a premade unit of only about 15-20 gallons hope it will work!
If anyone is a member on ARC feel free to join along and give any advice, pics of my sump on there.

 

[JCTewks]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12526330#post12526330 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
My skimmer pump broke today and I was reminded of just how SILENT the system really is. As I mentioned I have upgraded one of my pumps from a T4 to a Reeflo Snapper. The ONLY thing that can be heard is the slight hum of the Snapper. To put it into better perspective, from the office, I can hear when a fish comes to the surface of the water grabs at a floating piece of food or algea.

OT, but what will you be replacing your skimmer pump with?

 

[BeanAnimal]

I dunno that damn thing is leaking pretty bad. The volute cover will not seal properly anymore.

I am looking into purchase of one of the ATB pumps or an eheim NW. I am not a fan of the OR pumps at all. Others appear to love them, maybe I jut got a lemon and this is the icing on the lemon cake.

 

[dnahas]

Bean, Thank you for your ideas and contributions to the forum.

I am working on my setup using your drain method. I already had some 1.5” bulkheads and failsafe and silent are right in my system goals. I have a few questions if any advice can be offered. I figure a post here could help solve the I should have done this instead.

My setup: I have limited room, so my tank is drilled on the bottom. I just finished the silicone for the back wall overflow. Before I cut and glue, I doing a dry fit of the plumbing while the silicone cures. I have a larger aquarium in storage so most of my parts/fittings are sized big for this tank. This is also the reason most of my PVC connections are threaded, and I will use Teflon tape. This is a 60g cube (24”x24”x24”), due to the size of the 1.5” BH’s the back overflow wall is 4.75” off the actual rear glass of the aquarium. The unions in the overflow area are for any potential disassembly.

Other than the bottom drilled, I have two differences from your diagram. I did not drill the cap for the suction tube. I am using a threaded 1.5” to ½” Then 1/2” to 3/8” threaded adapter to the JG ¼ tube connection. I am not using a turned up elbow for the emergency drain, I plan on just a screen similar to what I have pictured now, but will be cut to a height above the other two drains. My current play is to have the drain heights a few inches below the overflow wall. My thought is I can place some egg crate/screen to give me a place for filter media if needed. I may stash my heater(s) in that space also, it just seems like a lot of wasted space if I don’t do something with it.

Initial potential changes:
Adding two 45’s to each of the outside pipes to move “bunch” them towards the center drain for more working space in the overflow area.

Since I don’t have room in the stand to thread the BV’s I may add unions between the BV’s and spa flex going into the sump. Chances are I will not add the unions due to extra space and I don’t THINK I will need to remove the BV’s from the BH’s.


Any problems in what I have so far? Keep in mind I have not started cutting my PVC pipes, so I know they are too tall.

Any ideas what I can do with the almost 12g of water volume in the overflow area?

Keep in mind no cutting yet, and the spa flex pvc is into the sump not pictured.

PIC's

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thanks for the kind words. It looks good to me. Yes, you can use the space for the heaters, media, etc. The open top drain will work, but it may also work better with an elbow. The elbow will prevent it from sucking air if it does have to be used. You can try it both ways... no big deal.

The overflow area could also be used as a DSB, a dosing area.

Let me know if I missed any of your questions.

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Tswifty]

Hey Bean, haven't been following the thread lately, but I was performing some maintenance on my tank and decided to take a little video to try and show how this sucker works. I should have done it before I added my overflow guard and front cover though, but I think it gets the point across. Let me know what you think.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yup, that looks like your emergency siphon kicks in as expected. Nice work.

 

[liveforphysics]

I've been getting PM's so show the trap setup that I added onto my setup. The old pictures are no longer hosted, so I used imagecrap to host a couple.

The traps cause the water to pool in the bottoms of them. With respect to noise of water entering the sump, this makes it as if the water only fell from the height of the traps rather than the height of the tank. If you locate your traps close to the level of the sump (like in the picture, about 6-8" above the sump level), the water just pours smoothly rather than churning and rushing. The water entering the sump is absolutely silent. The water entering the drains from the tank is absolutely silent. The soft hum of the sequence dart return pump is the loudest part of the whole tank, and even it is encased by acoustic dampening panels on the doors of the stand.

My traps enter my first fuge, however, I positioned them so that when/if I ever desire to use a filter sock, you can simply unscrew the swivel connections that come in traps (used for getting your girlfriends earrings back from the sink she dropped them into). After they are disconnected, I can swing the other end off to the side, and hang my two stage filter sock setup right from the traps.

After seeing how much they calm the water entering the sump, and providing additional functions to the tank, I would never plumb a tank again without them.

Best Wishes,
-Luke

 

[dnahas]

liveforphysics, Any chance you have an SPL meter around, AND your willing to re-plumb your system twice so you can give me levels from with and without the traps? All just so I can decide if its worth the limited space I have. J/k Nice Job.

My latest thought WAS plant some mangroves in the space, but then the thought of the roots causing a flood in my living room shut that down. I am afraid that if I turn the flow up high enough for SPS then any sand in that area would blow around back into the system. Maybe some LR rubble, thats a guess, or anything else of beneficial value to the system?

 

[rick s]

Hi Bean,

I am intrigued by your design and would like to use it with my 350 that I am working on. The obvious problem is that I have the standard, two, corner overflows. However, I've been thinking. . .

Each has a 1.5" drain and a 1" return line. On each overflow: I could use the 1" line as my drain (siphon) and use the 1.5" line for the emergency drain. I could valve the 1" line so I get an ever-so-slight amount of water running through the 1.5" line. Just enough to keep the water level in the box high enough to feed the siphon. I know the 1.5" line would handle all the flow should the 1" line clog, because that is the normal "designed" drain.

Sound doable so far?

Then, instead of connecting the two overflow's sighons together, I'm thinking I could run each one on it's own. One could feed my skimmer (with a separate valve to dump off any excess water) and the other could feed my sump, fuge, etc.

I know the 1.5" pipes would work as excess/emergency drains and I'm thinking I could control the water level in each overflow box with a "main" valve on each 1" line.

Has anyone done this?
Is it feasible? Or would it be too much of a headache trying to use the siphons to feed other devices?

Thoughts. . . ?

 

[tankdvr]

Bean, I have a question for you if you've got the time. I've got a 50 gallon with a calfo oveflow that has 3 one inch bulkheads. The sump is going to be a 20 gallon and I don't think I can fit 3 drain pipes into the sump.

My thoughts were to go with just the siphon and the emergency and not use the open channel. Then use the third bulkhead for the return and just split it off with lockine as it goes up and over the overflow. Will this work with just the siphon and the emergency, or should i go with a siphon and open channel, or do I need all three?

 

[gkyle]

Point of interest - I spoke with a guy that makes overflows and he said he's done testing to see how much actual flow he could get with various bulkhead sizes (safely). He registered approx. 350gph for a single 1" bulkhead running as an open channel, and over 950gph with the same bulkhead running a full siphon (3' drop). He said the problem with a full siphon is it pulls so much that the box will empty causing it to oscillate between a siphon and open. I guess that's the reason you valve back the siphon channel?

Do these numbers seem reasonable? He also registered 975gph with an open channel 1.5" bulkhead, but didn't have a number for a full siphon on that one.

I'm getting ready to hook mine up now, I drilled three 1.5" holes in my 180, and my drains drop about 10' vertical on a 25' two inch flex pvc run to the basement. Trying to figure out if the siphon will cause me trouble with that much pull.

 

[liveforphysics]

The longer the run with a siphon, the higher the flow rate through it (until it reaches a flow saturation equilibrium). The valve makes them quite nicely manageable.

The flow numbers you listed seem perfectly reasonable.

For your long drop application, a gate valve at the bottom will provide all you need to ensure smooth quiet operation.

Best Wishes,
-Luke

 

[gkyle]

Thanks, I did purchase the 2" gate valve to install at the bottom, based on one of your earlier posts. Appreciate the help!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Rick,

The setup sounds reasonable, but sometimes it is hard to get flow to balance through seperate siphons. Using the larger bulkhead as the open channel standpipe will help give the siphons more bandwidth and should provide a decent amount of safety.

 

[BeanAnimal]

tankdvr

Going with the 2 standpipes (one siphon, 1 emergency) is the "herbie" setup. It works, but is a bit different in several aspects. The "safety" and overall adjustment stability are dependent on the size of your return pump.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12583031#post12583031 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gkyle
Point of interest - I spoke with a guy that makes overflows and he said he's done testing to see how much actual flow he could get with various bulkhead sizes (safely). He registered approx. 350gph for a single 1" bulkhead running as an open channel, and over 950gph with the same bulkhead running a full siphon (3' drop). He said the problem with a full siphon is it pulls so much that the box will empty causing it to oscillate between a siphon and open. I guess that's the reason you valve back the siphon channel?

The numbers are reasonable but not hard. The "open channel" number can vary wildly depeneding on the pipe size, drop and air inlet. The flow can be anywhere from cascading laminar flow (air in the center) to turbulant flow (air pockets caught between water) to a fully laminar siphon. 350GPH sounds reasonable with a moderate drop.

The full siphon number is not correct. We could do some math and figure it out... but your guys number is very low.

Yes, the ball valve conrtols the rate of siphon and the open channel standpipe allows the head on the siphon to remain fairly constant preventing the oscillations.

I'm getting ready to hook mine up now, I drilled three 1.5" holes in my 180, and my drains drop about 10' vertical on a 25' two inch flex pvc run to the basement. Trying to figure out if the siphon will cause me trouble with that much pull.

The siphon will be fine. You will use a valve at the bottom to control the rate.