Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

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Oh DUH!

It's on the back. The tank sits on a wall in the living room. There was a closet behind the wall so I cut out a big hole in the wall and turned the 5'x6' closet into my "fish room".

Here's a pic taken back a bit further.

Fish-Room.jpg
 
eek those photos are .5 2megs each!

I will take a look at them in between working on the bids I need to get out the door for tomorrow.
 
Unless I am missing something, there will be no surface skimming, the overflow boxes appear to be simply extensions of the tank itself. The water level in the tank will be dictated by the height of the standpipes in the overflow boxes.

Can you provide some information your planned setup using these boxes... it may help me to figure out what you intentions are.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13009284#post13009284 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sikpupy
I am a little scared to get the schedule 80's and not be able to find threaded elbows to fit. Are threaded elbows a dime a dozen item for the schedule 80's too? How far will threaded elbows trow my box out? thats anoher concern, trying to keep it around 4" deep.
Click to expand...

why use threaded inside the overflow?

Have you checked your other thread on this subject?
I posted a link to the site that I bought my Sch 80 bulkheads from, they have slip/slip, slip/threaded, threaded/threaded.

Also, if you check my earlier posts in the last page or so of this thread, you will see where we talked about cutting down the 90s that are on the inside of the tank just for that reason, I would need 4' if I used the street 90s without cutting down the slip part. With it cut down, I only need 3.5".
 
Right now I am thinking one of the boxes on the right end of the tank will house cheato or the like, as well as the emergency overflow. the other end will house th full syphon and the secondary standpipe. return pump is a Dart it will have around 4 feet of head. thoughts?

If I have to I could block the bottom slits off and have some type of wier just on the top of the boxes for surface skimming.

I really appreciate the feedback-

L.R.
 
I appologize for not reading this entire thread. I'm sure my questions are answered in the thread, but its just too huge to search through. (Any way to add an FAQ link on the very first post? - that would be awesome!)

1. Is this tried and true (I know it works great for Bean, but how about others that have implemented it)? Is this a truly successful design that I should incorporate into my build?

2. Bean uses 1.5" diameter PVC. Is this a requirement? I have a standard 120 gallon AGA tank with dual megaflows. So I have 2 1" bulkheads and a 3/4" bulkhead to use. I'd like to use the 3/4" BH with 3/4 fittings for the siphon and the 1" with 1" fittings for the other two. Will this be ok? I will be using a Eheim 1262 return pump and expect about 600-800 gph flow through the sump.

3. What ID for the airline tubing? Is there a benefit or detriment to using 3/8" ID versus 1/4" ID airline tubing for the right-most overflow?

Depending on the answers, I'll soon be ordering 2 1" and a 3/4" true union ball valves for this setup.

Thanks!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13015169#post13015169 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LoneRanger
Right now I am thinking one of the boxes on the right end of the tank will house cheato or the like, as well as the emergency overflow. the other end will house th full syphon and the secondary standpipe. return pump is a Dart it will have around 4 feet of head. thoughts?

If I have to I could block the bottom slits off and have some type of wier just on the top of the boxes for surface skimming.

I really appreciate the feedback-

L.R.
Click to expand...

Bump for BA's input ;)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13016102#post13016102 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bored4long
I appologize for not reading this entire thread. I'm sure my questions are answered in the thread, but its just too huge to search through. (Any way to add an FAQ link on the very first post? - that would be awesome!)

1. Is this tried and true (I know it works great for Bean, but how about others that have implemented it)? Is this a truly successful design that I should incorporate into my build?

2. Bean uses 1.5" diameter PVC. Is this a requirement? I have a standard 120 gallon AGA tank with dual megaflows. So I have 2 1" bulkheads and a 3/4" bulkhead to use. I'd like to use the 3/4" BH with 3/4 fittings for the siphon and the 1" with 1" fittings for the other two. Will this be ok? I will be using a Eheim 1262 return pump and expect about 600-800 gph flow through the sump.

3. What ID for the airline tubing? Is there a benefit or detriment to using 3/8" ID versus 1/4" ID airline tubing for the right-most overflow?

Depending on the answers, I'll soon be ordering 2 1" and a 3/4" true union ball valves for this setup.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

1. Tried and true by more than a few. And I'm one of them.

2. I deviated from the actual design myself and it still works flawlesly. I used 1" pipe all around. If I were you I think I might want a 1" syphon so maybe use the 3/4 as the 3rd emergency pipe.

3. I used 1/4" airline. This is another area where I deviated from design. I simply used reducers to reduce things down to a 1/4" JG fitting so the airline would just push and seal into the fitting. I'm sure the 3/8 would be fine as well.

Side Note: I also didn't see a need for all pipes to have gate valves. You only really need one to run on the main syphon pipe. My second pipe was your basic durso standpipe and the 3rd was literally just a 1" pipe sticking up in the air.

Pictures of this set up are just a couple of posts back.
 
Thanks for the reply. The reason I suggested the 3/4" pipe for the siphon is because according to BA's first post on this design, a siphon flow can handle a much higher volume of water. So it makes sense to use the smaller pipe for the siphon. BA, can you comment on this? Thanks.
 
1.I'm trying to adapt this design to a 55g tank. I've modeled it up using the standard tank dimensions, coast to coast overflow, and 1ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ pipe. 1.5ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ just seems like way overkill for that tank size. I've also replaced the true union ball valves with true unions on the open channel and emergency standpipes. I didn't see any reason to use ball valves there. Can anyone tell me a compelling reason to have ball valves on those pipes?
2.Secondly, even with using the 1ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ pipe and fittings the overflow takes up nearly 1/3 of the top of the tank, severly cutting back on the amount of light entering the tank. What are your thoughts on this?
<a href="http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/iwearaskirt/?action=view&current=tank-back.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/iwearaskirt/tank-back.jpg" border="0" alt="Rear View of Tank"></a>
<a href="http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/iwearaskirt/?action=view&current=tank-isometric.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/iwearaskirt/tank-isometric.jpg" border="0" alt="Isometric View of Tank"></a>
<a href="http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/iwearaskirt/?action=view&current=tank-overflowbox.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/iwearaskirt/tank-overflowbox.jpg" border="0" alt="Side View of Tank"></a>
3.BTW sanitary tees don't come in 1ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ pipe, you only get straight tees in this size.
4.Regarding terminating the three runs in the sump...i am trying to employ a sump design similar to melev's three zone designs(water entry and protein skimmer, then return section, then water entry and fuge) ...http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html
Since all three of these pipes from the overflow need to be seperate and also need to to terminate belos the surface of the water to maintain the failsafe AND the Silent parts of the deisgn, is there a way I can still have water flow into both ends of the sump and and the return be in the middle, or will I just need to redesign the sump a little to have a linear flow from left to right (water entry and Skimmer, fuge, then return)?
 
BTW here is what i've got modeled so far...i may have to redesign a little. I was trying to design it so that i had a 55g display and 55g sump, but that may not be feasible....

<a href="http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/iwearaskirt/?action=view&current=progress.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/iwearaskirt/progress.jpg" border="0" alt="7/25 Progress"></a>

And, yes every single piece of wood trim is actually modeled in that assembly :-) I was on vacation for two weeks, and i have a hard time doing absolutely nothing constructive. I guess you might call it a complex, i gotta be doin' sumthin'...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13024938#post13024938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bored4long
Thanks for the reply. The reason I suggested the 3/4" pipe for the siphon is because according to BA's first post on this design, a siphon flow can handle a much higher volume of water. So it makes sense to use the smaller pipe for the siphon. BA, can you comment on this? Thanks.
Click to expand...

The 3/4 pipe for the full siphon will certainly work depending on the return pump output. I don't know what a 3/4 pipe at full syphon will handle but I do know that a 1" pipe will handle more. I figure that it's always best to have more (even if you have to valve the flow back to run properly) so that it leaves room for growth. You want to add a bigger return pump? - Now you can.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13025053#post13025053 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cpeisher
1.I'm trying to adapt this design to a 55g tank. I've modeled it up using the standard tank dimensions, coast to coast overflow, and 1ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ pipe. 1.5ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ just seems like way overkill for that tank size. I've also replaced the true union ball valves with true unions on the open channel and emergency standpipes. I didn't see any reason to use ball valves there. Can anyone tell me a compelling reason to have ball valves on those pipes?
2.Secondly, even with using the 1ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ pipe and fittings the overflow takes up nearly 1/3 of the top of the tank, severly cutting back on the amount of light entering the tank. What are your thoughts on this?

3.BTW sanitary tees don't come in 1ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ pipe, you only get straight tees in this size.
4.Regarding terminating the three runs in the sump...i am trying to employ a sump design similar to melev's three zone designs(water entry and protein skimmer, then return section, then water entry and fuge) ...http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html
Since all three of these pipes from the overflow need to be seperate and also need to to terminate belos the surface of the water to maintain the failsafe AND the Silent parts of the deisgn, is there a way I can still have water flow into both ends of the sump and and the return be in the middle, or will I just need to redesign the sump a little to have a linear flow from left to right (water entry and Skimmer, fuge, then return)?
Click to expand...

1. 1" pipe all the way will work - I've done it as well. You are also correct on the siphon pipe the only one needing restriction. A gate valve is mush easier to use than a ball valve unless you are opting for the expensive ball valves in which case you could have gotten a gate valve for the price in the first place. I would use a gate valve. Easier to dial in the correct flow.

2. There has been discussion here on that. You'll just need to search the thread. What some are doing is using the street elbow as well as cutting some of it off so it basically sits about flush on the bulkhead. This will remove as much of the width as you can.

3. Agreed and I have found the T's work as well.

4. Have the full siphon end at the skimmer end and the second pipe end at the fuge end. The second pipe will have less flow through it which is what you want going through the fuge anyway.

Personally I don't think you should take overflow water to feed a fuge but that's just me. I know lots of people that do. I feel that with the fuge being a low flow area and feeding it with "dirty" water could result in the fuge becoming a dirt trap. (sending the dirtiest water to the lowest flow area where it could settle out) If I incorporate a fuge into the system I always send the cleanest water I can to the fuge area to prevent this. The cleanest water will still have the nitrates/phosphates that the fuge is feeding on but hopefully it won't have the detritus in it that could settle and build up in the fuge area.
 
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I'm trying to read through this to find my answer, but I'm already on page 11 and haven't seen any mention yet.
So I just want to clear up a few concerns before I start gluing this all together.

I have seen no mention of drilling holes in any of the three overflows for breaking siphon to limit the amount of flow to the sump when the return pump is shut off. Would adding such holes break the design of this system? If holes can be added, where is the highest point I can add them that will not cause problems for the normal function of the system. What is the average amount of water people are seeing go into their sump from this system when the return pump is shut off. Thanks!
 
You don't need siphon holes. This means the water level in the overflow box will drop to the point that air is allowed into your full siphon pipe. How much water will this be? Depends on how big your overflow box is.

Could you make siphon holes? I suppose so but then you may also risk developing a vortex that would suck in air and make noise from the hole you make.

If it were me, I'd skip the holes and just figure how much water you will be draining so that you can set the sump baffles low enough to accomodate the water.

I think most people end up leaving too much space in the sump. I maximized mine simply to have the most gallonage as possible. I figured it real close, too close actually. I have dual sumps made from a 29 gal and 50 gal tanks. Water level runs only 2.5" down from the top of the tanks. This is still enough to handle pump shut off with water from 3 overflows and all the piping which is quite elaborate.
 
Hey Bean - I'm getting ready to install this system on my new tank. Thanks for all of the great information! TTT for a worthy thread!
 
Newbie Question......I am planning on this type of system and I still don't understand where the return from the sump would be located.(I.E. how it goes into the main tank):confused:

(Sorry if this has been answered but I don't get it without the graphics) Thanks in advance for the answer(s)
 
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