Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Johnseye]

I posted this in the lighting/filtration forum but got no response so I guess a more targeted post would be better.

I'm reading through a lot of threads on these topics and thought I'd reach out for some direct help. I'm in the process of building a 260g on the first floor. External overflow with three 1.5" drains for a Beananimal. The sump will be in the basement. The distance is about 8' of vertical, then 18' of horizontal, then another 5' of vertical. The head calculator says this is about 14' of head.

• Should the drain valves be at the tank or at the sump?
• I assume Spears gate valves for each drain?
• Is sediment build up of real concern with the length of horizontal run? My flow should be strong as I'm looking at either a YellowTail or SunTail Reeflo pump at close to 200g at 24'. I'm sure sediment will build up even with good flow, but my basement ceiling is drywall so access is next to impossible once I close it.
• Is a true union ball valve ok at the pump end to control return flow?
• Are two 45s better than one 90? Assuming yes.
• Better to avoid spaflex if possible, hard plumb everything
• Any advice those experienced with this kind of build can offer is appreciated

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Drain valve should be at the lowest point - near the sump water level. Also only the siphon needs a valve.

Spears valve is fine, I use a Cepex Dual union ball valve, it has just as capably fine-tuning ability because you can tighten the nut to get the proper tension on the ball, so you can set it such that you can make small smooth adjustments.

Sediment buildup, probably not. Long horizontal runs by themselves, yes. You need at minimum some slope and ideally, no horizontal runs.

Ball valve on pump outlet is fine.

2x 45 vs 1x 90, IMO yes.

I use spaflex on my siphon. I have to take a hard 90 to get over to the sump so the long sweep created by a curved section of spa flex was perfect, better than both a hard 90 or 2x 45s IMO

 

[Johnseye]

Drain valve should be at the lowest point - near the sump water level. Also only the siphon needs a valve.

I use spaflex on my siphon. I have to take a hard 90 to get over to the sump so the long sweep created by a curved section of spa flex was perfect, better than both a hard 90 or 2x 45s IMO

Why should the drain valve be at the lowest point?

No issues with leaking over time with the spaflex? I've read some have had issues, but that could be because of poor welding.

 

[GROSSR]

Thoughts on a Ghost overflow. I have a 46 bow with a C2C, I built myself. I have 3 1inch bulkheads. This setup is absolutely great and I love it.

However, I have been reading about Ghost overflows. Kind of the same setup, rather than 3 holes drilled in the the tank you have 2 holes and 3 holes in an exterior box, and the setup the same as the beananimal setup.

Anyone have any thoughts?

thanks

rich

 

[GROSSR]

I have my valve at the lowest level for a couple of reasons
1) easier to get to
2) the water after the valve has less distance to travel and to make noise.

thank

rich

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

The valve at the lowest point is so that air is more easily purged from the system, creating the fully flooded siphon line.

Consider 2 scenarios:

1) control valve at top of piping run. Water flow is reduced above the drain and air purges out quickly. Below the control valve, water flow is reduced per the valve and gravity pulls the water away faster. Air can get trapped in the line as it does not have as much turbulence forcing it out of the line. this can persist in certain setups (esp long vertical and horizontal) resulting in the siphon never starting.

2) control valve at bottom of piping run. As in #1, turbulence causes water above the control valve to purge quickly, any entrained air is forced to be pushed out of the piping because water is pushing up from below and pushing down from above - the air has no where else to go. Below the valve, there is very little volume in the plumbing so the air purges quickly, as does any air that gets pushed out of the piping above the valve (it can't get trapped in a small volume with high flow), so this creates a high suction situation that further speed the process of purging air out above the valve.


this is why it is critically important to place the drain valve as close to the end of the piping run as possible.

 

[Rumjahn]

Thoughts on a Ghost overflow. I have a 46 bow with a C2C, I built myself. I have 3 1inch bulkheads. This setup is absolutely great and I love it.

However, I have been reading about Ghost overflows. Kind of the same setup, rather than 3 holes drilled in the the tank you have 2 holes and 3 holes in an exterior box, and the setup the same as the beananimal setup.

Anyone have any thoughts?

thanks

rich

Check out my thread here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24194632


How to Install BeanAnimal Drains into Synergy Reef (or Ghost) Overflow

 

[GROSSR]

Interesting reading and only 2 pages. However, you need to read this post first as a primer for your post.

thanks

rich

 

[Johnseye]

Here was some advice I got about spaflex from Reeflo. "be careful of spa flex behind a wall because it can "move, sag, deflect" over time at inflection points". For what it's worth.

 

[rickztahone]

Need people's opinion, I am in the planning stages for a 22g long tank. I want to add a Bean Animal overflow but on the side of the tank, not the back. My goal is to use the whole side as skimming. My question is, is 12" wide enough to do 3 lines that the Bean Animal system requires? I can make the side section longer, but obviously not wider, 12" would be the limiting factor. The tank dims 36"x 12"x 12". Again, I want to avoid the rear of the tank as I have something in mind for the rear. if the 1" pvc will not fit, would 3/4" PVC work? Would it be too loud because of the smaller pipe diameter?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[jc03]

Bud, I hope you're well. Wondered if you had any thought on this? I've been running the overflow with no challenges or real adjustments for over 6 months. I have a foam partition in my sump but the sump water level has remained the same on each side of it. I added another layer of foam causing the water to raise on the filter sock (intake side) and lower about an inch on the side where the Reeflo return is. There was well over a foot of water above the return bulkhead in the sump after this adjustment. The pump was in no way starving for water or pumping that side of the sump dry. As soon as I did this the overflow box started draining and gulping. Do you have any thoughts on why?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Well if you lowered the water level in the return pump section, this increases the head loss experienced by the reeflo, and that will lower the return pumping rate. That will mean that your tuned siphon will flow faster than the pump and this will drain out the box until it sucks air, which will slow the drain (siphon break) and then it will fill and repeat.

Basically, your siphon is out of tune. You just need to close the siphon drain valve slightly to adjust for the lower return pump flow. The BA system will operate within a pretty wide range, but the change you made apparently took the system just outside the bounds of that operational range

 

[jc03]

Well if you lowered the water level in the return pump section, this increases the head loss experienced by the reeflo, and that will lower the return pumping rate. That will mean that your tuned siphon will flow faster than the pump and this will drain out the box until it sucks air, which will slow the drain (siphon break) and then it will fill and repeat.

Basically, your siphon is out of tune. You just need to close the siphon drain valve slightly to adjust for the lower return pump flow. The BA system will operate within a pretty wide range, but the change you made apparently took the system just outside the bounds of that operational range

As always, thanks Bud!

 

[hobbzz]

NM figured it out.

 

[rickztahone]

NM too, I figured mine out as well

 

[rocking]

What size drains would I need for 800 to 1000 gals a hour?

 

[Patrick Cox]

I am setting up a Bean Animal in an external overflow box. My question is - do I need to glue my stand pipes into the slip bulkheads or can I just insert them without gluing?

Thanks

 

[Spar]

I am setting up a Bean Animal in an external overflow box. My question is - do I need to glue my stand pipes into the slip bulkheads or can I just insert them without gluing?

Thanks

I did not glue them. Seems to be fine. the suction alone will jam it in well enough IMO/E, and by not gluing them makes it much easier to do maintenance later.

 

[woodnaquanut]

What size drains would I need for 800 to 1000 gals a hour?

One inch will work.

 

[zelie_dad]

Does the secondary drain (air line one) have to be placed higher higher than the main siphon drain?

In the original design, it doesn't appear that is the case, but I've seen that most new implementations are using this approach.