Mr.Tan
New member
siphon is working and making a complete siphon and i have a very small trickle of water through pipe 2. emergency is completely dry. Its not like i have a total siphon in pipe 2, its just a little drain off of water
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
siphon is working and making a complete siphon and i have a very small trickle of water through pipe 2. emergency is completely dry. Its not like i have a total siphon in pipe 2, its just a little drain off of water
FullBoreReefer
New member
A small trickle is exactly what you want.
Just to be clear, do you have a valve setup on your siphon, and you've "tuned" that drain according?
But it sounds like yours is set up perfect with a small trickle in pipe #2.
soocold
New member
Ok so I got a little over 300 post in the old thread and hit my TLDR. I've been fighting filtration for several years across both salt and freshwater, HOB filters, canister, and HOB overflow/sump. The tank is an off the shelf 56gal column, and currently stocked with 40ish small schooling fish. My current problem requires surface skimming that my canister just can't do. I still have a maxijet 3000, 20gal sump, and eshopps pf-800 HOB overflow. What I'd like to do, to avoid destroying an old tank by drilling, is get the eshopps pf-1800 and make a "HOB" bean overflow. I also dont have a large enough spare tank to house the fish for me to drill the current tank. In my mind I envision using the pf-800 for a 1" sipon, and the pf-1800 (dual 1½") for the open channel and emergency. That way some flow is going through each to prevent air entering the u-bends. This is not meant to be a permanent/perfect solution, I will be moving up into the 100-200gal range when I'm no longer in a rental.
Thoughts and opinions?
Thoughts and opinions?
Mr.Tan
New member
perfect. I do have a gate valve on the siphon pipe for adjustments. I seem to notice the level in the overflow box fluctuates sometimes and will either have some water trickling or nothing at all.
:thumbsup:
Ok so a year after my first post in this thread the tank is finally here.
It took over 4 months to build due to me coming up with new design ideas, some parts being very difficult to find, etc... almost drove the guy crazy lol but it is finally here.
The tank is using a bean animal overflow, so there are 3 drains, 2 full siphon, and the emergency drain.
The overflow looks like this, all drains are 32 mm (1.5 inches)
Note that the 2nd siphon is not finished, in fact, nothing is really finished as such as I still have to fill up the tank and do a flow test etc. It was testing in the shop and worked great, not a sound at all and running at around 7000 lph.
The drains come down in a straight angle, I believe this is the best way to prevent air bubbles in the pipes.
A picture from behind showing the drain pipes, please be aware that the pipes have not been cut properly and that they will not be so close to the bottom of the sump, I will cut them after I fill the sump with water and do a full flow test. Same goes for the position/length of the emergency drain (3rd from the left).
If you see any potentials flows that could be fixed let me know please
By the way, I wasnt too comfortable using a C2C drain without a weird of some sort so we came up with the below design, basically a removable weird that leaves no space for my jawfish etc to jump through!
I really hope it works well.
So I am about to put the return pipes together and I want to make sure I am not missing something or doing something wrong.
Some time ago I was worried about teeing the return to feed a refugium, reactor, UV etc but after chatting with Doc I decided to go ahead and do it as my pump can handle more than enough flow. But things have changed slightly now flow-wise.
Ideally the sump/tank flow will be around 5000-6000 lph (the tank is around 180 gallons or 626 liters)
So at first I was going to have a refugium but after a bit of research I decided to go and use a algae scrubber instead, it will go into the sump as soon as Bud has his new turbo L4 ready! That should be around spring
. I believe the scrubber will need quite a bit of flow, around 2000 lph, plus I also have to feed the UV light (650 to 1000 lph) plus and another output for something like fluid. reactor etc. The pump total output is 12000 lph so ~6000+~2000+~1000 = ~9000 lph giving me around 3000 lph to spare, more or less.
So my doubt is whether this much flow will cause issues with the overflow as it might need adjustments every now and then. I was hoping I would only need to adjust it when I am adding new equipment as in theory, if the pump is good enough flow variations should be minimum, or at least, nothing that the second siphone cannot handle.
This is the current design,
So what do you recon? I suppose I could always try this and if it doesnt work remove it.
Both bean animal overflow and algae scrubbers and not usual in Ireland (not even sure if there are any) so I am really looking forward to it. Even the cabinet design which is based on the rocketengineer design is quite new here.
Thanks!
It took over 4 months to build due to me coming up with new design ideas, some parts being very difficult to find, etc... almost drove the guy crazy lol but it is finally here.
The tank is using a bean animal overflow, so there are 3 drains, 2 full siphon, and the emergency drain.
The overflow looks like this, all drains are 32 mm (1.5 inches)
Note that the 2nd siphon is not finished, in fact, nothing is really finished as such as I still have to fill up the tank and do a flow test etc. It was testing in the shop and worked great, not a sound at all and running at around 7000 lph.
The drains come down in a straight angle, I believe this is the best way to prevent air bubbles in the pipes.
A picture from behind showing the drain pipes, please be aware that the pipes have not been cut properly and that they will not be so close to the bottom of the sump, I will cut them after I fill the sump with water and do a full flow test. Same goes for the position/length of the emergency drain (3rd from the left).
If you see any potentials flows that could be fixed let me know please
By the way, I wasnt too comfortable using a C2C drain without a weird of some sort so we came up with the below design, basically a removable weird that leaves no space for my jawfish etc to jump through!
I really hope it works well.
So I am about to put the return pipes together and I want to make sure I am not missing something or doing something wrong.
Some time ago I was worried about teeing the return to feed a refugium, reactor, UV etc but after chatting with Doc I decided to go ahead and do it as my pump can handle more than enough flow. But things have changed slightly now flow-wise.
Ideally the sump/tank flow will be around 5000-6000 lph (the tank is around 180 gallons or 626 liters)
So at first I was going to have a refugium but after a bit of research I decided to go and use a algae scrubber instead, it will go into the sump as soon as Bud has his new turbo L4 ready! That should be around spring
. I believe the scrubber will need quite a bit of flow, around 2000 lph, plus I also have to feed the UV light (650 to 1000 lph) plus and another output for something like fluid. reactor etc. The pump total output is 12000 lph so ~6000+~2000+~1000 = ~9000 lph giving me around 3000 lph to spare, more or less.So my doubt is whether this much flow will cause issues with the overflow as it might need adjustments every now and then. I was hoping I would only need to adjust it when I am adding new equipment as in theory, if the pump is good enough flow variations should be minimum, or at least, nothing that the second siphone cannot handle.
This is the current design,
So what do you recon? I suppose I could always try this and if it doesnt work remove it.
Both bean animal overflow and algae scrubbers and not usual in Ireland (not even sure if there are any) so I am really looking forward to it. Even the cabinet design which is based on the rocketengineer design is quite new here.
Thanks!
Johnseye
Reef Addict
I posted this in the lighting/filtration forum but got no response so I guess a more targeted post would be better.
I'm reading through a lot of threads on these topics and thought I'd reach out for some direct help. I'm in the process of building a 260g on the first floor. External overflow with three 1.5" drains for a Beananimal. The sump will be in the basement. The distance is about 8' of vertical, then 18' of horizontal, then another 5' of vertical. The head calculator says this is about 14' of head.
I'm reading through a lot of threads on these topics and thought I'd reach out for some direct help. I'm in the process of building a 260g on the first floor. External overflow with three 1.5" drains for a Beananimal. The sump will be in the basement. The distance is about 8' of vertical, then 18' of horizontal, then another 5' of vertical. The head calculator says this is about 14' of head.
- Should the drain valves be at the tank or at the sump?
- I assume Spears gate valves for each drain?
- Is sediment build up of real concern with the length of horizontal run? My flow should be strong as I'm looking at either a YellowTail or SunTail Reeflo pump at close to 200g at 24'. I'm sure sediment will build up even with good flow, but my basement ceiling is drywall so access is next to impossible once I close it.
- Is a true union ball valve ok at the pump end to control return flow?
- Are two 45s better than one 90? Assuming yes.
- Better to avoid spaflex if possible, hard plumb everything
- Any advice those experienced with this kind of build can offer is appreciated
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Drain valve should be at the lowest point - near the sump water level. Also only the siphon needs a valve.
Spears valve is fine, I use a Cepex Dual union ball valve, it has just as capably fine-tuning ability because you can tighten the nut to get the proper tension on the ball, so you can set it such that you can make small smooth adjustments.
Sediment buildup, probably not. Long horizontal runs by themselves, yes. You need at minimum some slope and ideally, no horizontal runs.
Ball valve on pump outlet is fine.
2x 45 vs 1x 90, IMO yes.
I use spaflex on my siphon. I have to take a hard 90 to get over to the sump so the long sweep created by a curved section of spa flex was perfect, better than both a hard 90 or 2x 45s IMO
Spears valve is fine, I use a Cepex Dual union ball valve, it has just as capably fine-tuning ability because you can tighten the nut to get the proper tension on the ball, so you can set it such that you can make small smooth adjustments.
Sediment buildup, probably not. Long horizontal runs by themselves, yes. You need at minimum some slope and ideally, no horizontal runs.
Ball valve on pump outlet is fine.
2x 45 vs 1x 90, IMO yes.
I use spaflex on my siphon. I have to take a hard 90 to get over to the sump so the long sweep created by a curved section of spa flex was perfect, better than both a hard 90 or 2x 45s IMO
Johnseye
Reef Addict
Why should the drain valve be at the lowest point?
No issues with leaking over time with the spaflex? I've read some have had issues, but that could be because of poor welding.
GROSSR
Active member
Thoughts on a Ghost overflow. I have a 46 bow with a C2C, I built myself. I have 3 1inch bulkheads. This setup is absolutely great and I love it.
However, I have been reading about Ghost overflows. Kind of the same setup, rather than 3 holes drilled in the the tank you have 2 holes and 3 holes in an exterior box, and the setup the same as the beananimal setup.
Anyone have any thoughts?
thanks
rich
However, I have been reading about Ghost overflows. Kind of the same setup, rather than 3 holes drilled in the the tank you have 2 holes and 3 holes in an exterior box, and the setup the same as the beananimal setup.
Anyone have any thoughts?
thanks
rich
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
The valve at the lowest point is so that air is more easily purged from the system, creating the fully flooded siphon line.
Consider 2 scenarios:
1) control valve at top of piping run. Water flow is reduced above the drain and air purges out quickly. Below the control valve, water flow is reduced per the valve and gravity pulls the water away faster. Air can get trapped in the line as it does not have as much turbulence forcing it out of the line. this can persist in certain setups (esp long vertical and horizontal) resulting in the siphon never starting.
2) control valve at bottom of piping run. As in #1, turbulence causes water above the control valve to purge quickly, any entrained air is forced to be pushed out of the piping because water is pushing up from below and pushing down from above - the air has no where else to go. Below the valve, there is very little volume in the plumbing so the air purges quickly, as does any air that gets pushed out of the piping above the valve (it can't get trapped in a small volume with high flow), so this creates a high suction situation that further speed the process of purging air out above the valve.
this is why it is critically important to place the drain valve as close to the end of the piping run as possible.
Consider 2 scenarios:
1) control valve at top of piping run. Water flow is reduced above the drain and air purges out quickly. Below the control valve, water flow is reduced per the valve and gravity pulls the water away faster. Air can get trapped in the line as it does not have as much turbulence forcing it out of the line. this can persist in certain setups (esp long vertical and horizontal) resulting in the siphon never starting.
2) control valve at bottom of piping run. As in #1, turbulence causes water above the control valve to purge quickly, any entrained air is forced to be pushed out of the piping because water is pushing up from below and pushing down from above - the air has no where else to go. Below the valve, there is very little volume in the plumbing so the air purges quickly, as does any air that gets pushed out of the piping above the valve (it can't get trapped in a small volume with high flow), so this creates a high suction situation that further speed the process of purging air out above the valve.
this is why it is critically important to place the drain valve as close to the end of the piping run as possible.
Check out my thread here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24194632
How to Install BeanAnimal Drains into Synergy Reef (or Ghost) Overflow
rickztahone
New member
Need people's opinion, I am in the planning stages for a 22g long tank. I want to add a Bean Animal overflow but on the side of the tank, not the back. My goal is to use the whole side as skimming. My question is, is 12" wide enough to do 3 lines that the Bean Animal system requires? I can make the side section longer, but obviously not wider, 12" would be the limiting factor. The tank dims 36"x 12"x 12". Again, I want to avoid the rear of the tank as I have something in mind for the rear. if the 1" pvc will not fit, would 3/4" PVC work? Would it be too loud because of the smaller pipe diameter?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Bud, I hope you're well. Wondered if you had any thought on this? I've been running the overflow with no challenges or real adjustments for over 6 months. I have a foam partition in my sump but the sump water level has remained the same on each side of it. I added another layer of foam causing the water to raise on the filter sock (intake side) and lower about an inch on the side where the Reeflo return is. There was well over a foot of water above the return bulkhead in the sump after this adjustment. The pump was in no way starving for water or pumping that side of the sump dry. As soon as I did this the overflow box started draining and gulping. Do you have any thoughts on why?
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Well if you lowered the water level in the return pump section, this increases the head loss experienced by the reeflo, and that will lower the return pumping rate. That will mean that your tuned siphon will flow faster than the pump and this will drain out the box until it sucks air, which will slow the drain (siphon break) and then it will fill and repeat.
Basically, your siphon is out of tune. You just need to close the siphon drain valve slightly to adjust for the lower return pump flow. The BA system will operate within a pretty wide range, but the change you made apparently took the system just outside the bounds of that operational range
Basically, your siphon is out of tune. You just need to close the siphon drain valve slightly to adjust for the lower return pump flow. The BA system will operate within a pretty wide range, but the change you made apparently took the system just outside the bounds of that operational range
As always, thanks Bud!
rickztahone
New member
NM too, I figured mine out as well
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