Skimmer Pondering....?

[Todd March]

Roger, do you have a footprint for the new 9000 series yet? I am really impressed with the specs on the 9010... Does it really only use 21 watts?!

Really in a quandry as to what skimmer to ultimately use on my new 90g SPS tank... I bought a blemed Euroreef for a great price, but I am really unsure if I want to strip the hell out of my tank (even part time) and feed artificial foods like Golden Pearls... Though this seems to be the trend in SPS keeping...

I love the plankton friendly features of the classic Tunze closed loop skimmers, and think an oversized 3140 on a 90g tank might be a nice option for high organic removal and still be tiny creature friendlyââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Âa real viable alternative to the needle wheel/Beckett method of ripping everything possible out of the water...? My tank will have a large Ecosystems/caulerpa type filter, and so it just bothers me to use a powerful skimmer even part time, but this seems such a popular componant of modern SPS culture...?

And now with the 9000 series, if I want to skim more heavily, there is yet another option...!

Do you, or Tunze, have any thoughts about modern protein skimming methods on SPS tanks? Was the 9000 developed to help capture a chunk of the lucrative "heavy skimmer" market, or does Tunze really feel this sort of modern heavy skimming is necassary and state of the art for optimal SPS keeping...?

 

[rvitko]

The 9000 really does use only 21w. The secret here is from day 1 we engineered for energy efficiency and no one else ever did. It is just a matter of low friction design and special materials. There is also a sacrifice in that our pumps are not especially high "torque" they don't pump against a lot of head pressure.

Anyway, to a great extent it is just marketing. When peoiple see two skimmers and one has a fuller cup with darker skimmate guess which one they buy. It is unfortunate but it is the same in automobiles. A Cadillac STS has 345hp, a C320 Mercedes has 215- oddly the Mercedes is faster due to a tighter package and better shifting and gear ratios. People just look at the power though and make there purchase. With that said we had our eyes opened to two things that are definite factors. The Zeovit method does work and by starving a tank for nutrients the brown xoozanthallae cannot propogate and the colors are improved. The hobby is in for big changes and making SPS maintanence easy and colorful is a part of a necessary future. The banning of collecting is a question of when and not if. SPS lend themselves to propogation much better than our current color packing LPS so it will be necessary that SPS maintanence have a standard method of guaranteed success with bright colors. Our older technology was from an era when the dutch reef of soft corals and macro algaes was the mainstay- this has largely gone to the wayside. We also learned in recent studies that our pumps also kill plankton, albeit much more slowly than competitors. It is feasible in a very large aquarium the reproductive rate would excede the casualties but it was something we could not ignore. Perhaps a wavebox only set up would further reduce this loss. So, we have to be part of modern times.

In my experience it is possible for many SPS corals to stay brightly colored with the older model skimmers. I found that lower intensity bluer light can also help reduce the brown out factor. A high KH seems to increase color. Things definitely grow slower this way though.

If I were you and I already owned a Euroreef I probably wouldn't bother unless you are enticed by the energy savings. Euroreef does make a good skimmer.

 

[t12345]

I haven't seen any information on the 9000 series skimmer, is this a new model? If so how is it different from the previous models? I don't understand how the Tunze skimmers are plankton friendly, could you give me a better understanding? I'm looking at setting up a 300gal tank, would you use this skimmer in a sump or in the comline setup?
thanks, Tim

 

[Aged Salt]

An interesting synopsis of the current wave of reef-keeping, Roger, thnx. Bob

 

[rvitko]

The 9000 series is new, it actually won't be available until fall. It is kind of a first in that it is convertible. You pull the standpipe and bottom plate off and put in a couple caps and it is converted to an intank model like the traditional comline.

On the current comline models the water inside is just recirculated, protein and cellulose diffuse into the skimmer by osmosis. Because the water inside is cleaner than the water outside an osmotic gradient is established and the waste diffuses in.

 

[rvitko]

Here is a picture of the new models which actively take in water and thus the plankton are destroyed by the pump and venturi unlike the old units.

 

[blgreef]

does the 9015 also only use 21 watts or is it a bigger pump?

And to put the cat among the pigeons, whats is the tunze approach to total tank filtration and DSB's

 

[Todd March]

"The Zeovit method does work and by starving a tank for nutrients the brown xoozanthallae cannot propogate and the colors are improved..."

Rogerââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂHave you first hand seen some of these Zeovite tanks in Germany? Were you that impressed? Is is that known and popular over there? I have been studying this here (with what little information is available), and I know that we have a US importer now, WWW ordering site and all... Sounds very promising, but as with anything new or propriety, makes me a little nervous...?

 

[rvitko]

The Tunze method relies on very fine mechanical filtration combined with denitrification by a deep chamber filled with clay slag that the water slowly percolates through. The carbon source is the debris in the mechanical cartridge that feeds the bio reactor. To add to this we use a skimmer which removes organic material and arates the water. The sand bed is not important with this method. With high enough flow and fine mechanical filtration debris isn't much of an issue with the coarse sand. The biohydro reactors remove the nitrates and other waste by culturing various bacteria.

In the Zeovit system various zeolites and phosphate removers together with high powered skimming strip the water further to eliminate foods for the symbiotic algaes that cause brown outs in SPS. I have not seen Zeovit tanks outside of displays at interzoo which were only run a few days so you can't make a judgement on that. I know we are introducing a Zeolite and two types of Phosphate remover- one Iron based and one Aluminum based. We do not have a food for our zeolite but our tests show that most aquaria have sufficient carbon sources already if they have a high starting Nitrate. We aren't really marketing them as a method but as a remedy for a situation with very small amounts used to slowly bring Nitrates under control. My personal opinion is the old method is very well. I think a modified version of this classic method running small amounts of phosphate remover and carbon as needed and using a more powerful open loop skimmer with a very small amount of ozone (1mg/l per 100l) is likely the best method for long term success, this what I plan to try next. There are literally dozens of ways to do it and nowadays you see everything from sulphur reactors to electronic denitrifiers. Personally, I am a gadget guy but I like reliable proven ways. I don't trust algae to filter my tank, it could die and that worries me. I don't like resin and medias that have to be replaced alot, these really add up and I would rather just pay up front for something and have it over with. Two methods that I really like and have proven success with are: cheap version- plenum (Ok start flaming away), Reefpack with Calcium Dispenser and an appropriate flow pump. This way is cheap (relative for the quality and success built in, I can't compare it with just slapping an undersize hang on skimmer on and lighting some votive candles) and very reliable and effective, it is easy to use too with most calcium and KH issues being automated by the plenum and kalk. My other proven way to do it is a full Tunze cabinet kit or Comline set and high flow powerheads, I even do my freshwater tanks this way with great success. The tanks I set up this way never really need water changes after the bio reactors are fully functional, and they run with very low nutrient levels. Probably I could do better color wise if I employed some of the new methods though, right now I mainly depend on using just the right amount and color temp of light which I find to be 150w 10-14K lamps. I use lower intensity light than most people- they save on heat added and electricity consumption from lights, chiller and AC. I also really believe Calcium and KH have to be automated. It doesn't matter how, but you need to find a way to maintain fairly constant and reasonable levels like 10-12 and 380-400. Just keep it reasonable and constant- don't go crazy with 14 and 500 in efforts to improve groth, it probably works but it also makes a lot of technical problems it is too easy to screw up and have a big precipitation. Don't put any other crap in you tank except maybe Iodine and a general trace element at 1/4 dose 2 times as often.

 

[Todd March]

Thanks for an excellent post, Roger. Your opionons and thoughts on these matters is most appreicitated... The Zeolit thread people made a specific post today regarding your praise of the Zeolite method in this thread, which is high flattery indeed...

 

[wfv57]

Roger can you convert the new 9000 series skimmer from open loop to closed loop? If so this is a chance to use both plans to see which gives the best effect on my tank. Is the difference in models of 9000 skimmer just the height of the skimmer or the pumps different? Do you feel the hydrofoamer pump gives the same volume and size bubbles as a becket or needle wheel skimmer? I also want to add 6000 streams to my tank but like the features of the new controller can the steam be used with out the controller until it is available? How best to order products that are not available yet? Last do your dealers have the phos. test kit yet?

 

[rvitko]

The skimmer is too far off to preorder. You could conceivably modify it for closed loop, I have somewhat forgotten what it looks like inside but seem to recall it was possible. The skimmer is actually the same size. The hydrofoamer gives similar sized bubbles but not as many, the skimmer is too small and chokes if you put that much air into it. You can run the 6000's without a controller. The phosphate tests are now in stock here but given the expense they likely will be special order only with dealers.

 

[Todd March]

Hey Roger, what's the low down on the phosphate test kit...? Haven't heard anything about this...?

What exactly is the expense...?

 

[Tagareef]

Alot of great info...Thanks Roger

 

[rvitko]

It is a real laboratory Phosphate kit by Machery Nagel. It reads from .01-.25mg/l. The kit is pretty neat, it comes in a hard plastic case and uses a colorimeter wheel, you mount two test tubes over the wheel- one with just water from the aquarium to compensate for any coloration in the water and the other with your test sample. You turn the wheel until you have an exact match and read the number in the slot of the wheel holder. It does 100 tests and they cost $99.10. This is added to our existing test kit which is about $30 and tests between .25mg/l and 3mg/l, we felt we needed a very precise kit when we introduced our phosphate removers since going below .015 PO4 can be fatal to some corals. The new very accurate set is part 7016.50, the older set is still offered and is part 7016

 

[wfv57]

Roger the reason I brought this thread back up was a response to Todd that referenced the change from open to closed loop for the 9000 series skimmers. from a pump stand point do all 9000 skimmers use the same pump just turned down for the smaller skimmers? When using the steam with out the controller can the output be adjusted manually? Last what is a approx. size for the deco Rocks? Thanks again Bill

 

[rvitko]

The new skimmers all use the same pump, in fact you can upgrade through all three with just a few simple parts. The Hydrofoamer generates so much air that it is at the threshold of what the skimmer can take before essentially becoming a box of air. On the smaller ones you just barely crack the venturi and the big one you can run full throttle. The smallest one is an economy version and only comes equipped for in tank- the reason for the shorty cup was so it would fit under a cap. The medium one is essentially just like the 3130 but can run in sump or in tank and a standpipe compensates for water level varience in the sump. The largest 9015 has a large cup that holds almost a half gallon and it also will include a blow off collector and is equipped for in tank or in sump. They were still tweaking the design when I left so some things are subject to change and there may be another adjustment of air intake besides the screw.

 

[rvitko]

BTW- Stream rock is 6" tall and about 11" long and wide.

 

[redsea]

3140 modification/upgrade

3140 modification/upgrade

Hi Roger,
Will I be able to modifiy/upgrade by newly purchase 3140 skimmer so I can run it in sump with a standpipe compensates for water level varience in the sump? Right now my sump water level is not at the height the 3140 needs to push the foam level into the collection cup. I do not have enough height in the stand to put a sump with a higher height to increase water volume. I do not want to put the 3140 inside the tank.
Cheers,
Francesca

 

[rvitko]

Unfortunately it is not possible to modify a 3140. You should only need 10.5" of water for proper operation. It should be possible to install a dam in the sump and then place the skimmer on the high water side of the dam and in this way you maintain the capacity of the sump and provide the water height needed for the skimmer.