Skimmer Q&A Thread

[bernie lyons]

skimmer size

skimmer size

I agree! I've read you should pick a skimmer that is rated for at least 1 1/2x your water volume. I used a website to calculate mine and it came to 90 gallons so I would need a skimmer that is rated for 135 gallons. You can always get one that's bigger and it will idle if there is nothing to skim but that usually means more $.
There are so many options I actually did a spreadsheet to sort it all out and it took a few days to do it:headwally:
Not to add to the confusion but I also had on my list a Bubble Magus Curve 5. They're about $200.

The bigger skimmers are always better for oxygenation and redox potential- higher ph levels.The problem is that alot of guys are trying to buy (unless budget is tight) a so-called skimmer that is just the right size for a specific aquarium volume. Many manufactures don't help in this regard as they are producing hundreds of "specific sized" skimmers for every gallon of tank water
you increase too. Bottom line is a bigger skimmer that is rated at least 1 1/2
or better yet, '3 times' the capacity(water volume) rating of an "well stocked" tank is always going to be better for the health of your fish and corals !
By the way, any skimmer that can skim out the waste in a relatively short period of time and then go's into idle is a GOOD THING...skimmers that are always "struggling" by skimming constantly are "Too Small" for the tank.

 

[ksed]

Out of all those skimmers mentioned I would only look at 2 of those brands.
AquaMax EM series. All AquaMax skimmers are well balanced and all use the Sicce pump. I personally think that the new S series of skimmers with the tiny cones on the bubble plate will give you much gain over say the EM series. If you look at the EM series bubble plate the holes have a very small hole and have been countersink. So essentially they have a stubby cone built into the bubble plate. After all that the EM of the Aqua Max line will give you the best bang for the buck.

Reef Dynamics proven design and work very well. I would only use a Reef Dynamic with an Eheim pump on it. I have seen some Eheim's running on some older style Deltecs for over 10 years. Probably the most reliable pump out there. They are bulkier than the Sicce and a bit less efficient. But if I had to put money down on which will last longer it would be Eheim. Don't get me wrong I think Sicce are Fantastic pumps.

Omega would be my third choice only because I heard of some impeller issues.

HTH

First I wanted to say thank you to everyone in this thread... I don't post much as most of my questions are answered just by reviewing past information.

My question is well many... the more I read the more I have questions when it comes to skimmers and I'm hoping you guys are able to clarify a few things for me. Here is some of the questions listed out to make it easier.

First my Information on my tank and what I have learned about the skimmers..

Tank Information:
--------------------------------
Type: Reef Tank
Tank Size: 75
Sump Size: 20
Total water: 75 to 80
Bioload: Medium heavy to heavy


Skimmer Requirements:
---------------------------------------
1. Cost up to $350
2. The best skimmer possible for the money
3. Good reliable pump
4. Low noise - as much as possible


Skimmer List and what I have learned...
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1. Aquamaxx EM200 - Ok from what I have read this is a good skimmer but may be to big for my tank...however I have seen people post that they are using it around 80 gallons and others say it will just not skim as well as the EM100 on my size tank...

2. Aquamaxx EM100 - Good skimmer but has issues with the water splashing do to the outlet pipe position... fixable... but still a potential problem and would this fit my tank better??

3. Aquamaxx ConeS CO-1 - New skimmer design...no complaints as yet good pump but new so not proven..may not be strong enough for my tank.

4. Aquamaxx ConeS CO-2 - New skimmer design...no complaints looks like a top performer high demand for this skimmer but may be to big for my tank as some people have posted.

5. Vertex Omega 150 - New skimmer may be good not proven yet... great construction .. PremiumEQ likes the skimmer but not much to back this up yet may be unbalanced as some have said.

6. INS80 - Has been around for a while but the question is can it handle my tank

7. INS100 - Has been around for a while but will this be better than some of the other skimmers that cost less.. also the pumps from what I understand are not as good as the ones Aquamaxx is using.

8. INS135 - Has been around may be to big for my tank however its a question as Jeff from Reef D... talks about getting the biggest skimmer possible.. but that is contradictory to what I understand you should do.

9. Reef Octopus DNW150 Recirculating Skimmer - From what I have read Recirculation Skimmers are better than normal skimmer design as they have better contact time.. but how much better.

10. Reef Octopus DNW110 Recirculating - May be to small not sure how good the pumps are on the Reef Octopus...

11. Bubble Magus BM-NAC7 - They have been around for a while...not sure if other skimmers will do a better job... and this one may be to big.. also the pumps.. not sure if they are any good.

12. Bubble Magus BM-NAC3+ - This may be to small not sure..

13. RLSS Waveline R-6i - Hear good things little pricey from what I can tell but not sure how they compare

14. JNS SK2 - This skimmer is what I gather the same things as the Aquamaxx...may be way to much skimmer..



QUESTIONS>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Are recirculating skimmers like the Reef Octo DNW150 that much better.

2. If the recirculating skimmers are better does that mean they can better handle a larger tank and pull more DOC with less idling time..

3. Should I do the Plus 1 as a lot of people in the past have been talking about or maybe things have changed as others have said and we don't need to do that anymore.

4. Are the pumps the most important thing as some have said.

5. Out of all the skimmers in the list and I may have left some out.. which one would you get and why..


Thanks Guys.. sorry of the book...just thinking out loud after all the reading I have been doing over the last month...

 

[mikeatjac]

The bigger skimmers are always better for oxygenation and redox potential- higher ph levels.The problem is that alot of guys are trying to buy (unless budget is tight) a so-called skimmer that is just the right size for a specific aquarium volume. Many manufactures don't help in this regard as they are producing hundreds of "specific sized" skimmers for every gallon of tank water
you increase too. Bottom line is a bigger skimmer that is rated at least 1 1/2
or better yet, '3 times' the capacity(water volume) rating of an "well stocked" tank is always going to be better for the health of your fish and corals !
By the way, any skimmer that can skim out the waste in a relatively short period of time and then go's into idle is a GOOD THING...skimmers that are always "struggling" by skimming constantly are "Too Small" for the tank.

I will agree with the first part of your statement, however I disagree on selecting a larger skimmer. I have tried many skimmer over the years and I have always found a well balance skimmer fitted to your tank size is the best option. I will agree that some Skimmers are over rated but that is usually easy to find out.

 

[bernie lyons]

well balanced skimmer ?

well balanced skimmer ?

I will agree with the first part of your statement, however I disagree on selecting a larger skimmer. I have tried many skimmer over the years and I have always found a well balance skimmer fitted to your tank size is the best option. I will agree that some Skimmers are over rated but that is usually easy to find out.

Please explain to me what a "well balanced " skimmer is ?

 

[mfinn]

this one:

or OBD's:

you know mike will treat u good.

I did put some money down one.
It should be ready for me to pick up next week.
I'll post some pictures.

 

[SEEMAC]

That is one of the big question really....what is the right skimmer to buy for my size tank? Should I go with something like a Aquamaxx EM200 rated at up to 240 gallons...or the EM100 rated up to 120 which would be 1 1/2 times my water volume.

So if I buy a bigger skimmer say 3x water volume and it is unable to keep a consistent foam head.. this is due to.

a. The skimmer is leaving more organics in your tank on a continual basis due to the fact that it is unable to produce a good foam head...so not very efficient for you tank?

b. The skimmer will remove the organics so fast that it will keep your tank cleaner pulling max organics say 35%... that is why it is ideling all the time?

 

[reeftivo]

I did put some money down one.
It should be ready for me to pick up next week.
I'll post some pictures.

Looking forward to your review.

 

[bernie lyons]

3x skimmer

3x skimmer

That is one of the big question really....what is the right skimmer to buy for my size tank? Should I go with something like a Aquamaxx EM200 rated at up to 240 gallons...or the EM100 rated up to 120 which would be 1 1/2 times my water volume.

So if I buy a bigger skimmer say 3x water volume and it is unable to keep a consistent foam head.. this is due to.

a. The skimmer is leaving more organics in your tank on a continual basis due to the fact that it is unable to produce a good foam head...so not very efficient for you tank?

b. The skimmer will remove the organics so fast that it will keep your tank cleaner pulling max organics say 35%... that is why it is ideling all the time?

Ok , first and foremost, the skimmer that's sits "idle" well it actually isn't sitting idle as it is still skimming inorganics substances which are actually attaching and or looking to attach themselves to the bubble itself based on the "dwell time" in the reaction chamber cylinder...by the way to dispell the myth , inorganic/organic substances are NOT leaving the skimmer and going back to the tank just because you don't see a foam head. Secondly, the foam head is not the skimming , the foam head is the seperation point in which the organic build up is being forced into the end point -the top of the neck and into the cup. Thirdly, a bigger skimmer is flushing your tanks water more efficiently on a hour to hour basis allowing for less build up of inorganic/organic substances from getting to the point where it becomes an issue and the tank starts to show algea and diatom problems. Bigger skimmers most certainly keep your ph more stable and higher particularly at night time where most organic life "respires".
Also, bigger skimmers allow for you to feed heavily as the efficiency/effectiveness of the skimmer itself can remove the pollutants at a much faster rate. Again , keeping your ph stable-redox potential, is the key here especially when feeding the tank twice to three times a day !
I have been in this hobby for quite a while and also have retailed and wholesaled to the public for over 16 years. I also continue to service large saltwater systems for my clients who have owned tanks for over 18 years. I've owned tanks for over 20 years myself and my experience is not just based solely on a scientific point of view but mostly on an " observational" and "trial and error" basis .

 

[mikeatjac]

Please explain to me what a "well balanced " skimmer is ?

A well balance skimmer is a when a skimmer's neck is set for the air / water flow of the skimmer pump. And a body that has good reaction time.

Examples of great balanced skimmers are some of the ATB, bubble king skimmers. One of the best balanced skimmers I have seen is the old MSX200.
Some of the newer skimmers appear to well balanced.

You want one that is balanced and matched to your tank volume and bioload. Really having a skimmer that is a little too small is better than one that is too large. A over sized or poorly balanced skimmer will not develop a head to push the organics in to the cup or you will have to make the skim very wet. If you have to skim wet you have the wrong skimmer.

If you think wet skimming is just as good, wet skim for a day and filter in a coffee filter. Do the same, if you can, dark skimming. Weight them, dark skimming is better.

Finally you want to match the skimmer output close to the amount of water that passes though your sump.

Oh and you want to make adjustments to your skimmer in the early morning. I find that my skimmers perform better at night. No sense in making adjustments during the day.

Of course this is my option, but I have been the hobby over 25 years.

 

[bernie lyons]

balanced skimmer

balanced skimmer

A well balance skimmer is a when a skimmer's neck is set for the air / water flow of the skimmer pump. And a body that has good reaction time.

Examples of great balanced skimmers are some of the ATB, bubble king skimmers. One of the best balanced skimmers I have seen is the old MSX200.
Some of the newer skimmers appear to well balanced.

You want one that is balanced and matched to your tank volume and bioload. Really having a skimmer that is a little too small is better than one that is too large. A over sized or poorly balanced skimmer will not develop a head to push the organics in to the cup or you will have to make the skim very wet. If you have to skim wet you have the wrong skimmer.

If you think wet skimming is just as good, wet skim for a day and filter in a coffee filter. Do the same, if you can, dark skimming. Weight them, dark skimming is better.

Finally you want to match the skimmer output close to the amount of water that passes though your sump.

Oh and you want to make adjustments to your skimmer in the early morning. I find that my skimmers perform better at night. No sense in making adjustments during the day.

Of course this is my option.

Ok then, I am a little confused about some of your statement's because it sounds a bit condradictoring ? I am most curious but how do you determine the "Exact" bioload of a given volume of your system to come to the conclusion of getting the "right" balanced skimmer ? So if you, let's say for example,you add a couple of more fish and corals, then you have obviously changed your bioload and therefore you're "balanced" skimmer becomes "unbalanced" for that system, right? That sort of throws you theory out the door doesn't it ? Another example of what you said condradict's what I have observed, you mentioned that a good "balanced" skimmer is one that has a good body for the reaction time and decent neck so as not to produce a "wet" skimmate ,right? But most newer "cone" skimmers have a small reaction chamber and throw nothing but "wet" skimmate into the cup because of the lousy "dwell time" to allow for proper inorganic /organic attachment to the bubble surface . I am curious, the products you mentioned in your thread as to being the "Great balanced" skimmers of choice,(atb,bubble king) which are "pinwheel" type design's , what about beckett , conventional venturi , downdraft and air driven skimmers ?... Are these considered by you not to be "balanced" type skimmers for a system ? Also, if you read my column above, I explain in some detail of the reason's for having an "oversized" skimmer on a tank and in my experience I've only used skimmers that were at least 3X the volume of water and with great success in keeping some of the most difficult corals and fish over the years.

 

[mikeatjac]

Never used the word exact! Let's use "planned". Either way there is some overlap between low, med or med high bioloads. As you know there is nothing in this hobby that is exact, not even our test kits.

Yes there are different types of skimmers, I used a beckett skimmer before and it worked but took a lot of power (and heat to the system) to be efficient. It too can be a balanced skimmer. Believe it or not my first skimmer was an venturi with a airstone, I think it was called a foaminator. I just pointed out some balanced skimmers.

So if I go 3X (and the manufacture is not lying too much) am I getting skim in my skimmer. Probably not and if not, why not put a airstone or two in your tank to get the benefits you point out?

So a skimmer's job is too skim right? So what is confusing about that? Any skimmer can aerate the water.

 

[bernie lyons]

skimming

skimming

Never used the word exact! Let's use "planned". Either way there is some overlap between low, med or med high bioloads. As you know there is nothing in this hobby that is exact, not even our test kits.

Yes there are different types of skimmers, I used a beckett skimmer before and it worked but took a lot of power (and heat to the system) to be efficient. It too can be a balanced skimmer. Believe it or not my first skimmer was an venturi with a airstone, I think it was called a foaminator. I just pointed out some balanced skimmers.

So if I go 3X (and the manufacture is not lying too much) am I getting skim in my skimmer. Probably not and if not, why not put a airstone or two in your tank to get the benefits you point out?

So a skimmer's job is too skim right? So what is confusing about that? Any skimmer can aerate the water.

Yes an oversized skimmer will always skimm and produce a foam head .But you are confused about what is skimming and what is a foam head?
Please read my reply on this matter above . Airstone's in a tank will oxygenate the water but are not under atmosperic pressure in a cylinder so they are completely two different things.

 

[mikeatjac]

Skimming efficiently is not oversized. Why do you think so many reefers talk about of having to wet skim, never getting a dark skim.

 

[bernie lyons]

oversized

oversized

Skimming efficiently is not oversized. Why do you think so many reefers talk about of having to wet skim, never getting a dark skim.

Who are these "reefers" you are talking about? I have been using oversized skimmers for over 20 years and all the tank systems I have designed and sold to clientele have been using these very same "oversized" skimmers for quite some time with great results- contrary to what you said these "oversized" skimmers in these systems including mine,produce "gobs" of heavy thick/dark skimmate!.Your explaination to oversized skimmers "not" skimming is therefore , ridiculous ! Efficiency is determind by a skimmers ability to remove inorganic/organic waste in as little time as possible. I strongly suggest you read an scientific report that was published in 2010 comparing various skimmer brands and their ability to remove Toc's . This report outline's the different "efficiencies" of different brands of skimmers and compare's the Toc levels removed from each unit. This will give you some insight as to what is in fact good skimming and what is not. By the way the most efficient skimmer in this test happened to be the least expensive (Precision marine's conventional recirculating venturi design). The most expensive unit by far, was the bubble king which came in the top 5. However most interestingly, there were a couple of cone skimmers including a vertex cone , these design's came last in the comparison...interesting !

 

[ViktorVaughn]

Anyone have any experience and/or recommendations for a HOB skimmer for a small 20 gallon tank? I don't have the room for a sump and hate the cluttered look of a ton of equipment in the tank, especially a small 20 gallon. I've decided to go the HOB route and was wondering what everyone's experiences were with these. I would preferably like one that can be switched over to a bigger tank (50-75 gallon range) while still being able to keep up with all the waste when I upgrade in the future and turn my 20 into my sump.

 

[ksed]

In all fairness the BK 160 removed the most average TOC than any other skimmer. Even more that the downdraft.

Who are these "reefers" you are talking about? I have been using oversized skimmers for over 20 years and all the tank systems I have designed and sold to clientele have been using these very same "oversized" skimmers for quite some time with great results- contrary to what you said these "oversized" skimmers in these systems including mine,produce "gobs" of heavy thick/dark skimmate!.Your explaination to oversized skimmers "not" skimming is therefore , ridiculous ! Efficiency is determind by a skimmers ability to remove inorganic/organic waste in as little time as possible. I strongly suggest you read an scientific report that was published in 2010 comparing various skimmer brands and their ability to remove Toc's . This report outline's the different "efficiencies" of different brands of skimmers and compare's the Toc levels removed from each unit. This will give you some insight as to what is in fact good skimming and what is not. By the way the most efficient skimmer in this test happened to be the least expensive (Precision marine's conventional recirculating venturi design). The most expensive unit by far, was the bubble king which came in the top 5. However most interestingly, there were a couple of cone skimmers including a vertex cone , these design's came last in the comparison...interesting !

 

[bernie lyons]

bk160

bk160

In all fairness the BK 160 removed the most average TOC than any other skimmer. Even more that the downdraft.

Actually the bk-160 was one of the slowest to remove the said amount of toc's in the group. If you re-read the article carefully , the scientists compare the K value (removal of Toc's vs time it takes to complete the process). The precision marine veturi skimmer was the best of all the skimmers in this comparison. In fact it is even mentioned in the article ! An detailed chart is provided for each and every skimmer in the test.

 

[Swim]

Ok then, I am a little confused about some of your statement's because it sounds a bit condradictoring ? I am most curious but how do you determine the "Exact" bioload of a given volume of your system to come to the conclusion of getting the "right" balanced skimmer ? So if you, let's say for example,you add a couple of more fish and corals, then you have obviously changed your bioload and therefore you're "balanced" skimmer becomes "unbalanced" for that system, right? That sort of throws you theory out the door doesn't it ? Another example of what you said condradict's what I have observed, you mentioned that a good "balanced" skimmer is one that has a good body for the reaction time and decent neck so as not to produce a "wet" skimmate ,right? But most newer "cone" skimmers have a small reaction chamber and throw nothing but "wet" skimmate into the cup because of the lousy "dwell time" to allow for proper inorganic /organic attachment to the bubble surface . I am curious, the products you mentioned in your thread as to being the "Great balanced" skimmers of choice,(atb,bubble king) which are "pinwheel" type design's , what about beckett , conventional venturi , downdraft and air driven skimmers ?... Are these considered by you not to be "balanced" type skimmers for a system ? Also, if you read my column above, I explain in some detail of the reason's for having an "oversized" skimmer on a tank and in my experience I've only used skimmers that were at least 3X the volume of water and with great success in keeping some of the most difficult corals and fish over the years.

Yep, if we are talking 120 gallon and up setups give me a multiple beckett or Mazzei venture skimmer with a six to eight inch main tube about 48" tall with a straight tube head, Berliner style, of about 4" in diameter 16" tall So I can process a large amount of water per hour. This is the kind of skimmer that will give good consistent redox numbers.

 

[bernie lyons]

beckett/mazzei skimmer

beckett/mazzei skimmer

Yep, if we are talking 120 gallon and up setups give me a multiple beckett or Mazzei venture skimmer with a six to eight inch main tube about 48" tall with a straight tube head, Berliner style, of about 4" in diameter 16" tall So I can process a large amount of water per hour. This is the kind of skimmer that will give good consistent redox numbers.

I Agree completely my friend !!!

 

[ksed]

So you don't think removing the most TOC is as important or more so more important than the rate of removal.

Actually the bk-160 was one of the slowest to remove the said amount of toc's in the group. If you re-read the article carefully , the scientists compare the K value (removal of Toc's vs time it takes to complete the process). The precision marine veturi skimmer was the best of all the skimmers in this comparison. In fact it is even mentioned in the article ! An detailed chart is provided for each and every skimmer in the test.