Skimmer Q&A Thread

[bernie lyons]

small bubbles

small bubbles

My observation as a skimmer designer has shown that everything else being the same, the skimmer that produces the smallest air bubbles will be the most efficient.
During the days that needle wheel impellers were infused with thin nylon wire(enkamet),very small bubbles were produced along with huge amount of foam.
Unfortunately the enkamet fell apart quickly so the experiment was abandoned.

True if everything being exactly equal. However, bubbles only have to be small enough to stay within the reaction chamber to collect the inorganics until they are saturated. Although the smaller the better is the "ideal" people seem to think defines what is a better skimmer, if the bubbles are too fine they will simply go out the skimmers output into the sump. The design and execution of a skimmer such as contact time , balanced ratio of air /water and I believe certainly counter-current approach which allows for dwell time spent in the reaction chamber are the key ingredients.
The very best of skimmers for ultra fine bubbles is the wooden diffusers but , a beckett skimmer designed properly will destroy the wooden diffuser skimmers to death for efficiently in removing organics out of the water, due to their "high volume turnover" approach - so much for the "super fine bubble" theory LOL !

 

[jason2459]

I have a new set up 37gallon with 20 gallon small custom sump (all equipment I previously had approx. total water volume about 50 gallons). I want to make this an SPS only set up but the largest effective skimer footprint I can accommodate in this sump is 5 x 9 inches. I have an old AquaC 120 but have had issues getting it to skim properly (might be overskimming for this size water volume). I am seriously considering the Sea Side Aquatics CS3.5 with Sicce SK200 needlewheel pump as this has a footprint of only 4.6 x 6.6 inches and would fit. It is a cone design, has a diffuser plate and can be disassembled for cleaning - all nice design features. It is 4 inches in diameter. Any thoughts, recommendations, etc. Are there any HOB skimmer that would be better? What about an external skimmer for this size tank (not a real fan of this)?

Thanks

The SSA cs3.5 would be a good fit. But if you're going sps and heavy bioload you could look at the tunze DOC 9006. Compact and very efficient. Maybe even a bit overkill.

Edit: and the aquac120 is supposed to be good for that volume pending bioload.

 

[metalmesh]

Super fine bubble theory

Super fine bubble theory

True if everything being exactly equal. However, bubbles only have to be small enough to stay within the reaction chamber to collect the inorganics until they are saturated. Although the smaller the better is the "ideal" people seem to think defines what is a better skimmer, if the bubbles are too fine they will simply go out the skimmers output into the sump. The design and execution of a skimmer such as contact time , balanced ratio of air /water and I believe certainly counter-current approach which allows for dwell time spent in the reaction chamber are the key ingredients.
The very best of skimmers for ultra fine bubbles is the wooden diffusers but , a beckett skimmer designed properly will destroy the wooden diffuser skimmers to death for efficiently in removing organics out of the water, due to their "high volume turnover" approach - so much for the "super fine bubble" theory LOL !

Escaping skimmer bubbles has been and still is a problem for those that do not use a sump. If the sump baffles are properly designed and filter material is placed in the proper location, there will be NO bubbles returned to the aquarium!
Bubble size in this case does not matter.
For those that have the all-in-one aquariums, it could be a nightmare depending on the design of the baffles/placement of filter material in the filter section of the aquarium. As an example, the new Red Sea Max 250 aquarium has a totally redesigned filter section which allows better control of micro bubbles.
On the "super fine bubble theory", it is a fact that smaller bubbles create a much larger total surface area for the organic molecules to cling to resulting in a quicker removal of skim mate.
When we started to incorporate our metal mesh impellers using small pumps, it was obvious that the fine cutting edges created a huge amount of small bubbles (pinpoint size) that the skimmer bodies were totally white from top to bottom (see picture on our website nanoreefsystems.com). So much for the "theory" LOL

 

[bernie lyons]

micro bubbles

micro bubbles

Escaping skimmer bubbles has been and still is a problem for those that do not use a sump. If the sump baffles are properly designed and filter material is placed in the proper location, there will be NO bubbles returned to the aquarium!
Bubble size in this case does not matter.
For those that have the all-in-one aquariums, it could be a nightmare depending on the design of the baffles/placement of filter material in the filter section of the aquarium. As an example, the new Red Sea Max 250 aquarium has a totally redesigned filter section which allows better control of micro bubbles.
On the "super fine bubble theory", it is a fact that smaller bubbles create a much larger total surface area for the organic molecules to cling to resulting in a quicker removal of skim mate.
When we started to incorporate our metal mesh impellers using small pumps, it was obvious that the fine cutting edges created a huge amount of small bubbles (pinpoint size) that the skimmer bodies were totally white from top to bottom (see picture on our website nanoreefsystems.com). So much for the "theory" LOL

You are stating the already "obvious" theory about "the smaller the bubble the greater the surface area " , but you missed my point.
Not all skimmers are created equal, therefore, as I pointed out earlier a well designed beckett set up will and in my Long term experiment with various pinwheel skimmers and wooden diffusers design's , beaten these up in terms of effective DOC's removal !
So there must be something beyond just bubble size going on here ?

 

[jason2459]

Have no idea if it's rumor but what I heard are Beckett injectors are no longer being produced commercially? Any truth to that? No doubt they can inject a ton of foam as seen in MTC HSA and MRC skimmers. I've also been looking at the Bashsea Twisted skimmers but maintenance on the the Beckett has always made me hesitate.

 

[bernie lyons]

beckett injectors

beckett injectors

Have no idea if it's rumor but what I heard are Beckett injectors are no longer being produced commercially? Any truth to that? No doubt they can inject a ton of foam as seen in MTC HSA and MRC skimmers. I've also been looking at the Bashsea Twisted skimmers but maintenance on the the Beckett has always made me hesitate.

I believe they are still making the injectors.

 

[metalmesh]

Skimmer design

Skimmer design

You are stating the already "obvious" theory about "the smaller the bubble the greater the surface area " , but you missed my point.
Not all skimmers are created equal, therefore, as I pointed out earlier a well designed beckett set up will and in my Long term experiment with various pinwheel skimmers and wooden diffusers design's , beaten these up in terms of effective DOC's removal !
So there must be something beyond just bubble size going on here ?

You are right, not all skimmers are created equal.
We have seen many different body designs all claiming to be better then the previous one. What we have not seen is a new design in impeller technology which is where the foam/airbubbles are created. Beckett design creates great foam but also requires large, power consuming pumps.
So imagine an impeller design that requires small, low power pumps, but creates a lot of foam and extremely small bubbles due to its' very thin cutting edges.

 

[ksed]

I understand your point but you can achieve small bubble's with wooden diffusers. Yet becketts seem to outperform them? Please explain.

You are right, not all skimmers are created equal.
We have seen many different body designs all claiming to be better then the previous one. What we have not seen is a new design in impeller technology which is where the foam/airbubbles are created. Beckett design creates great foam but also requires large, power consuming pumps.
So imagine an impeller design that requires small, low power pumps, but creates a lot of foam and extremely small bubbles due to its' very thin cutting edges.

 

[Quiverfull]

The SSA cs3.5 would be a good fit. But if you're going sps and heavy bioload you could look at the tunze DOC 9006. Compact and very efficient. Maybe even a bit overkill.

Edit: and the aquac120 is supposed to be good for that volume pending bioload.

Still can not get the Aqua c to skim. Using mag 5 and followed instructions from their own support. Does not look like the 9006 is still available. Could not find on the tunze website. Will probably go with the ssa cs3.5. Any other suggestions for a 50 g volume sps only that can fit into a 5 x 9 sump area?

 

[jason2459]

I am on the side of rating the skimmer more towards the display and bioload as the rest of the systems volume is all about export (usually). I think the SSA cs3.5 would be pretty consistent and includes a good pump.

 

[shred5]

I am running the ATB Nano One on my frag tank. My Frag tank has 70gal total water volume. Skimmer works great. You wont get any reviews unless someone outside the USA chimes in. This product is brand new to the USA.

That thing really only 15 inches tall?


I have a 75 with a pretty large sump and upgrading to a 90. I doubt it would handle my tank. I just thought it was interesting skimmer and pushed a good amount of air for its size.

-------------------------
Anyway

I was thinking of trying a ATB, Bubble King or a Deltec against my RLSS R6-I since I am upgrading the tank. My current tank is got a very heavy load since I have 5 anthias and they get fed 6 or more times aday.. I have tried a few skimmers and none were a upgrade and I keep ending up back at the RLSS skimmer.

I though maybe these would be a good fit:

Mini Bubble King 160
ATB 840 v2.0 Protein Skimmer
Deltec SC 1456 Internal

I have owned Deltec before and loved them but the dc skimmer with no bubble plate bothers me a little but they have been such solid performers in the past.

 

[jason2459]

That thing really only 15 inches tall?


I have a 75 with a pretty large sump and upgrading to a 90. I doubt it would handle my tank. I just thought it was interesting skimmer and pushed a good amount of air for its size.

-------------------------
Anyway

I was thinking of trying a ATB, Bubble King or a Deltec against my RLSS R6-I since I am upgrading the tank. My current tank is got a very heavy load since I have 5 anthias and they get fed 6 or more times aday.. I have tried a few skimmers and none were a upgrade and I keep ending up back at the RLSS skimmer.

I though maybe these would be a good fit:

Mini Bubble King 160
ATB 840 v2.0 Protein Skimmer
Deltec SC 1456 Internal

I have owned Deltec before and loved them but the dc skimmer with no bubble plate bothers me a little but they have been such solid performers in the past.

If you've got that budget then totally the ATB 840 v2.0 or get a hold of Slief on here for the Bubble King. I think there's also a long running bubble king club thread in this equipment section.

 

[shred5]

If you've got that budget then totally the ATB 840 v2.0 or get a hold of Slief on here for the Bubble King. I think there's also a long running bubble king club thread in this equipment section.

Yea the bubble king is a huge price difference though and not sure that particular model out performs the ATB much for the cost. It does have an nice pump though and would maybe consider a used one. It is allot of money for a skimmer that may not be much better than my RLSS. The RLSS has been a great skimmer. I wish RLSS made a model between the R6-i and the R8-I because I think the 8 would be way overkill.. RLSS is supposed to have new upgraded models by now but I still have not heard much. They have showed a smaller model.

 

[PRDubois]

That thing really only 15 inches tall?


I have a 75 with a pretty large sump and upgrading to a 90. I doubt it would handle my tank. I just thought it was interesting skimmer and pushed a good amount of air for its size.

-------------------------
Anyway

I was thinking of trying a ATB, Bubble King or a Deltec against my RLSS R6-I since I am upgrading the tank. My current tank is got a very heavy load since I have 5 anthias and they get fed 6 or more times aday.. I have tried a few skimmers and none were a upgrade and I keep ending up back at the RLSS skimmer.

I though maybe these would be a good fit:

Mini Bubble King 160
ATB 840 v2.0 Protein Skimmer
Deltec SC 1456 Internal

I have owned Deltec before and loved them but the dc skimmer with no bubble plate bothers me a little but they have been such solid performers in the past.

Yes the Nano one is only 15" tall. It will handle up to 150 gal, but it does have a small collection cup. Will have to empty weekly. I would suggest the 840v2 because I like to overskim anyway and it has the larger collection cup.

 

[shred5]

Yes the Nano one is only 15" tall. It will handle up to 150 gal, but it does have a small collection cup. Will have to empty weekly. I would suggest the 840v2 because I like to overskim anyway and it has the larger collection cup.

The thing looks big in the pics..

 

[PRDubois]

The thing looks big in the pics..

Here is it next to a can of Sprite:

 

[amirlovely]

bubble magus curve 9

bubble magus curve 9

i have 150gallons ten lps reef and 15 fish . if i will buy bubble magus curve 9 is good skimmer for my tank? or not?

 

[jason2459]

If you're looking at the bubble magus I would go with a comparable model form Seaside aquatics as they match up the skimmer with a better pump.

For the 150 I would suggest the ES2 or or curve 9 would be good too. I've been using the ES2 with great success on my 180. I have several post in this thread showing it off.

 

[bernie lyons]

beckett's

beckett's

I understand your point but you can achieve small bubble's with wooden diffusers. Yet becketts seem to outperform them? Please explain.

The beckett skimmer if properly designed- (MTC HSA) allows for much greater turnover rate of your tanks water compared to wooden diffuser skimmers in 24 hour basis ,therefore , greater amounts of organic waste get's processed through and collected.

 

[jason2459]

Cross posting from my tank thread for the EM300 I just got in today and setup....

I have it setup and running now. It pulls a lot more air then I thought it would. I'm quite impressed. It's rated for 1020 LPH air draw which converts to 36scfh. On my dwyer it was hovering between 38 and 40! That converts back to 1076 LPH to 1133 LPH of air flow!!!! The SRO3000SSS is rated at 39 SCFH or 1104 LPH. If I remember right I think I clocked it in at 42 scfh or 1189 LPH. I'd have to look back in this thread. So the SRO still pulled more but holy buckets I truly didn't think the EM300 was going to even pull the rated 1020 LPH of air let alone exceed it. I don't know why I didn't think to get the airflow from the SSA ES2. I guess I didn't expect much from that skimmer BUT boy did it exceed all expectations. I hope I get the same stability and consistency from the EM300 with a little more production. I also have to mention the EM300 is just as quiet as the ES2 which is darn near silent. The SR03000sss was quite noisy.

I have it in a hair over 8.5" of water

The air flow (snapped off several pics to show it wasnt a one shot fluke and because I was so excited lol )

The volute on the shark 3 is impressively large which probably helps attribute to that air draw.

Now back to before I got it in production and some side by sides.

EM300, ES2, and SRO3000SSS

ES2, EM300, and SRO3000SSS