So it starts......

ichthyman

Active member
https://rettalbot.wordpress.com/2014/09/16/usfws-notifies-aquarium-businesses-that-importing-listed-corals-is-illegal/

I hope this is just an over zealous interpretation.

What effects us,

Acropora globiceps
Acropora jacquelineae
Acropora lokani
Acropora pharaonis
Acropora retusa
Acropora rudis
Acropora speciosa
Acropora tenella
Anacropora spinosa
Euphyllia paradivisa
Isopora crateriformis
Montipora australiensis
Pavona diffluens
Porites napopora
Seriatopora aculeata

There is enough diversity in that list to put a huge chilling effect on imports and possibly aquaculture activities.
 
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From the articles that I have read they don't bother to discern between wild and aqua cultured specimens.
This is what the pijac rep was telling me. The u.s. ESA has no separation between captive and wild species and all of them fall under their regulations, whereas the rest if the world plays by their own rules. I guess we're all felons now lol
 
Well, I smell a lawsuit coming. More reasons to donate.

I posted this in another thread... Total BS.


"Politician approves major shipping lanes for coal export and dredge... um, I mean kill the reef.... Same Politician, NOAA, NMFS, Media outlets like Huffington Post and Discovery Networks, and others blame it on the hobbyists and global warming.

Please, we see straight through your BS. Global warming??? My tank, in less than optimum conditions compared to natural reefs can fluctuate a few degrees a day without any ill effects. We know more about the science than you so called experts who probably couldn't identify a frogspawn from a hammer.

We know that if we put a drop of diesel fuel in our tanks we're going to kill coral. We know that if we drop a steel can on a coral colony it's going to crumble and die. So guess what NOAA, NMFS, Mr. Politician? We don't do that to our reefs, so maybe you should stop doing it to Earth's reefs."

 
UPDATE: One report that National Marine Fisheries Service (the governing agency with jurisdiction) states that US Fish and Wildlife Port of Los Angeles Office of Law Enforcement actions this morning were incorrect and importation of the 20 species listed below is NOT prohibited.

Nice a turf fight between agencies. We'll see who wins. No confirmation yet to appear on other sources or retraction from USFWP officials.
 
Just a bit more info before everyone thinks its all going down the drain. CuzzA I couldnt agree with you more. but for everyone else take a little time and read this


Re: Some progress on listing endangered corals.

Last week NOAA Fisheries announced they will list 20 coral species as threatened under the Endangered Species Act (ESA). Fifteen of the newly listed species occur in the Indo-Pacific and five in the Caribbean. None in Hawaii. No species were listed as endangered.

The announcement reflects changes from the rule to list 66 species proposed in November 2012.

Since that time, many new scientific papers on climate change and coral habitat, distribution, and abundance were published that NOAA was able to consider and incorporate into the final decision. NOAA also considered extensive public comments as part of the final rule making. The new information, provided after the proposed rule was published, strengthened the basis of the final determinations set out in the final regulation.

Useful websites for the listed coral species:
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/stories/201...s_listing.html
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/species/...tes/corals.htm

Materials and Resources
Final Rule (as delivered)—08/27/14
Final Corals Listing Fact Sheet (PDF)
Final Corals Press Release (PDF)
November 2012 Proposed Corals Listing
Corals Listed Under the ESA
Scientific Permit Information for Corals

So, what does this mean for us who have these corals?
I talked to people at NOAA and this is what I found out:

At this point we are allowed to have all corals, except for those related to the two previously listed elkhorn and staghorn corals from the Caribbean, which have been protected in 2006. So, at this point nothing has changed for us from what it has been.

In the future, NOAA may identify specific regulations for the conservation of these threatened species, because ESA prohibitions against “take” are not automatically applied as they are for species listed as endangered. These corals are listed as threatened, not endangered. So, that means restrictions on harvest and keeping them does not automatically apply. More work on NOAA’s part will have to be done to determine if additional restrictions need to be enforced.

Again, at this point nothing has changed for us from what it has been. You can continue to buy and keep all corals, except for the two acros that were listed in 2006 from the Caribbean. Which aren’t available to buy in the U.S. anyway.

1) Please note: All of this that I just posted corresponds to #1 in my previous post above (1.11.2014 post).

2) We are still waiting on the results of #2 in my previous post above (1.11.2014 post).

3) And here is #3: And there is a new petition... here. NOAA was asked to evaluate fish species as threatened or endangered under ESA. NOAA will move forward evaluating if the orange clownfish (Amphiprion percula) will be listed next, but the remaining six petitioned Indo-Pacific species: The Hawaiian dascyllus (Dascyllus albisella), reticulated damselfish (Dascyllus reticulatus), blue-eyed damselfish (Plectroglyphidodon johnstonianus), black-axil chromis (Chromis atripectoralis), blue-green damselfish (Chromis viridis), and blackbar devil or Dick's damselfish (Plectroglyphidodon dickii) will not be. . To clarify, out of all these fish species, only the percula will undergo more research to determine if it needs protection, all the other fish are off the hook. BTW - this federal register notice is open for public comments if you would like to do so. Deadline to submit public comments is: 11/03/2014.
 
and the second one is


2) This is the second petition: On July 15, 2013, NMFS received a petition to list 81 species as threatened or endangered and designate critical habitat under the Endangered Species Act. NMFS found that the petition presented substantial scientific or commercial information indicating that the petitioned action may be warranted for 3 coral species only:
• Cantharellus noumeae (here are two good sites: Cantharellus noumeae & Cantharellus noumeae)
• Siderastrea glynni (here are two good sites: Siderastrea glynni & Siderastrea glynni)
• Tubastraea floreana (another site: Tubastraea floreana)
For these 3 corals above - What does this mean? This means that NMFS is moving forward and will most likely list these three as either endangered or threatened under the ESA. Based on international info, my guess is that these three are heading for an endangered listing…..They are already listed as such under other entities and the likely chance they are in any of our tank is low, especially those new to the hobby. The chance they are in older tanks is higher, but still low, but there might be a couple of you out there that has them (out of the millions of tanks in the hobby).
 
Good info sirrealism.

It's kind of weird reading some of the species that are so called "threatened". As I ponder at my tank thinking to myself, "hmm, I never thought in my life I would have a potential endangered species thriving in my living room."

Of course my next thought was, "Damn they must be really "endangered" by us awful hobbyists. You know, since millions of people have that species in their living room. And much of what is purchased, for me anyways, was aquacultured."

I don't know... Typical government. Creates a problem and passes laws that don't fix the problem, but claim they fixed it... Ban the whole damn hobby if you want, it's still them destroying the reef. Bastards.
 
I'm right there with you CuzzA, some of the hobbyist spend so much time and money to make sure these animals thrive as well as possible. I'm all for protecting the natural reefs but I think the next time they decide to look into this they really should separate wild caught and coral that's grown in someones tank or prop system.
 
That was kind of my thought 2. what are they going to do. come into my house take my corals and kill them. I mean if they are really worried about it why not ask us to frag up or stuff so they can repopulate the endangered corals. I mean logic thinking just doesnt work with the government. I bet if they asked us 90+% would give at least half of what we had if they had a plan to put it back. I know I would.
 
I think the ugly truth around making the distinction between wild and aqua cultured in the ban is that they cannot effectively regulate it. Honestly, how could they really (legally) make the distinction to confirm the coral you have was fragged from someone who obtained and was growing it pre-ban. They could not do it on a consumer level.
 
I think the ugly truth around making the distinction between wild and aqua cultured in the ban is that they cannot effectively regulate it. Honestly, how could they really (legally) make the distinction to confirm the coral you have was fragged from someone who obtained and was growing it pre-ban. They could not do it on a consumer level.


Exactly
 
One guy i know is keeping receipts for all his new coral and making sure where ever he got it from is date and time with signature. Mind you it sux that its coming to that
 
One guy i know is keeping receipts for all his new coral and making sure where ever he got it from is date and time with signature. Mind you it sux that its coming to that

I don't think that matter from what I understands once there endangered and illegal it illegal to own regardless of when you got them.
 
So just a scare... for now.

Recently Listed Coral Species Still Legal to Trade

Nammack reiterates that the recent listing of the 20 species of coral under the ESA includes no additional prohibitions placed on conduct related to coral or coral reefs at this time. "œWe did not issue any protective regulations with our coral listings," Nammack says. "œIt appears that this FWS enforcement officer is misinformed, thinking that 50 CFR 17.31 applies to threatened species listed under NMFS jurisdiction. However, it doesn't. We must issue a section 4(d) rule before any such prohibitions are put in place."

As of this afternoon, both Inspector Osborn and Nammack said they had spoken and understood each other. Osborn says he is still waiting for confirmation from USFWS Washington office.

While it appears this incident was a case of a straightforward misunderstanding, the news that USFWS was planning to begin confiscating imports of some very popular aquarium corals leaves many in the saltwater aquarium hobby spooked. Trade leaders and advocates have stated in off-the-record discussions that this incident further proves the need for an immediate and concreted response to the ESA listings, which they contend are not supported by the best available science. "œFor doubting Thomases," one industry leader told me today, "œmuch of what was predicted by the trade is falling into place now."
 
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