So what would temp reading would kill my tank?

[raymond4133]

It is sad seeing so much hobbist being forced out of the hobby because of these summer temps....


But I am still puzzled by one question....

What actual temp does it take for a hobbiyst's tank to crash....

I don't know if it is a good thing or not but my tank had a reading of 85.4 with my Halides on....(No airconditioner) Yesterday...and it would rise to 85.4 from around 78-80 ish area...

I am so sorry that this question may be a very stupid one indeed but I am still puzzled by it...My corals and fish seem to be fine....All i notice is that is different is one of my finger leathers will not bloom like its old self...Peharps its dying (probalby caused by me moving it a couple of times....)

Other than that the big Long Tentacle Anemone that i got from Minh seems to be doing bigger than ever...(Expanded to the size of a dish and all the other corals seem to be hanging in their.....

Is there any tall tail signs of a tank crashing that i should look for...(Any bleaching) Any receding.....what?

Is it reasonably safe to say that if the temp goes up above 90 than are we in some deep *%^* (Although I heard anything above 85 is deep *&*&^*& as well

Please help i am very lost...

 

[reefnetworth]

above 83f is dangerous and things start to die. back the MH off about 2-3" something ive done is place ice in a zip-lock and float it. dont drop temp fast, that isnt any better than the heat. REEF-ON!!!

 

[Pico1]

stabilty is more important than low temps. I've been running my reef between 83-84 this summer without any problems. You can safely go to 86 but anything higher than that you will see things start to look bad.

 

[Justin74]

There really isnt any definate number. Like nano4brains suggested 83+ gets very dangerous and put you in a crapshoot for survivability. Sure you may have hardy stuff that can withstand it, but they will only be hardy for so long if those temps are consistantly kept. Tanks can crash between 85-86+ depending on the creature that cant withstand it which there are species who cant especially existing stressed corals or new frags, once it goes, it can release its innards and the accelerated decomposition due to high temps starts a chain reaction killing a typically otherwise healthy animal, and then the snowball occurs and vuala! Crashed tank !

Btw, not a dumb question at all.

-Justin

 

[Nu2SW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7851008#post7851008 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pico1
stabilty is more important than low temps. I've been running my reef between 83-84 this summer without any problems. You can safely go to 86 but anything higher than that you will see things start to look bad.

But as dr ron said, we strive for stability but yet the ocean is not stable...

Makes sense...

My tank stays at about 79 (night)-83 Mid day

I think if you keep it stable and something bad does happen they are not use to it and will die off faster.

The last heat wave my tank got up to about 85, and everything is alright, somethings looked a lil stressed, but they all survived, which will make them stronger...

But as to most reefers, we will not agree on what is the best, everyone will have different opinions, but its up to you to make a wise decision and go with it....

OH and there is no such thing as a "Stupid question".... Only stupid people who DON'T ask questions... LOL We are all here to help, So please Ask away.

PS on a side note... I am in a really playful and goofy mood today...:mixed:

 

[brianblack72]

The coral reef shop owners tell me that their main display tanks get up to 92 degrees at times, so long as the temperature is not sustained that high (maybe a few hours at most) that nothing will die off. The first indication of temperature that is too high will be frogspawn heads dieing off.

Although she clearly stated that this practice is not advisable, she has not noticed any other side effects of short periods of high temperatures.

I personally have had different experiences, where most corals seem to curl up at about 85 degrees. I try to keep my temps from 76-79.

 

[MandM]

My only loss this summer was a frogspawn in my nano at work. Since Euphyllia are found in deeper water in the wild they are not going to encounter the wide swings in temp that are seen at the surface.

The natural reefs have a lot more dilution to wash away the stress mucus than we have in our tanks so we tend to not fare as well with the higher temps.

 

[raymond4133]

Well i dont know i will see how high it gets today....Funny( I have a frogspawn and it is all the way near the top of the tank right under the metal halides and it never seems to stop suprising me by looking so wonderful....but i guess the water is not hot yet if my frogspawn heads did not begin to die off...)


Thanks for the responses everyone......

All in all might just have to invest in a chiller....(I thought I never would have to buy one...But as i hear more and more of the summer time woes i worry for the best...)

 

[dots]

84-86 I would say is pushing it, but it also depends on the volume of water and how much disolved oxygen is in it. I had a bunch of stuff die off at about 84 last summer. I think pushing it that high will leave little wiggle room. In addition how many temp probes are you using and have they been calibrated? You may think you are on the ragged edge, but fine, and in reality a few degrees off that mark.

It really depends on how much you want to gamble on the tank and wiegh the pro and cons.....whats cheaper and bunch of new livestock or a chiller?

But stability is key. If you acclimate them to higher temps, just like lighting you will probably be fine, however large swings in temp daily will harm your ultimatly. Ask yourself how much the ocean swings daily?

 

[Nu2SW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7868494#post7868494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sacramentodots
Ask yourself how much the ocean swings daily?

It swings alot from highnoon to 3am in the morning...10-20degree difference I would suspect....Of course depending on what ocean

 

[dots]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7868956#post7868956 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nu2SW
It swings alot from highnoon to 3am in the morning...10-20degree difference I would suspect....Of course depending on what ocean

Without starting a frenzy of debate. This is what I meant: because the oceans are connected and that water is an excellent heat sink and has a large carry capacity, the ocean varies very little overall. Which is what we have all been told.....pick a value and stay as close as possible.
Below is something I QUICKLY found online to explain it further.

The ocean is a more efficient collector of solar energy then the land due to the high
heat capacity of water and vertical mixing of surface ocean waters. Water has an extremely high
heat capacity, with the result that ocean waters can absorb and release large amounts of heat
with little resulting change in temperature. But water temperatures would increase by about 3.5
degrees C in one day if the absorbed sunlight heated only the upper water of the ocean surface.
Vertical mixing of near-surface waters distributes the daily inflow of solar energy to depths of ten
meters or more. As a result the heat absorbed by ocean waters during the day is not as readily
lost to the atmosphere as on land, where only the surface of rocks and soil are heated. The
mean daily temperature variation of the land is consequently much greater than that of the open
ocean, which varies by only 0.2--0.3 degrees C over a 24 hr period.

 

[BenH98]

Didn't Dr. Ron Shimek at the last meeting say that some tidepools swing as much as 10 - 15 degrees?

I think your temperature swings should be consistent if it's going to happen. My tank *use to* swing about 5-7 degrees. I say use to because my tank did cook itself to death when I was gone for a week. Everything was just fine - But as long as the temp swing is consistent I don't think there would be a problem...

 

[dots]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7872743#post7872743 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BenH98
Didn't Dr. Ron Shimek at the last meeting say that some tidepools swing as much as 10 - 15 degrees?

Of course they would, they are disconnected and isolated in thier own smaller enviroment.

 

[Sk8r]

There is some research that says bleaching also involves strong light; but don't risk it above 84 degrees.

Your rocks are a double-edged benefit: they hold cold or heat longer, and may shelter the denizens inside or near them, but once they do heat up, they take a long while to cool down. If you lose your microfauna like pods and worms, the biomass of the dieoff could start a crash, and there'd be nothing to eat the dead organisms. Cascading crash. Also, hot water doesn't hold as much oxygen [am I right, chemists?] and your high-oxy fish like tangs would die and start a cascade from the top down.

 

[Reefugee]

Saying that tide pools swing by as much as 10 to 15 degrees doesn't necessarily applies to our tanks. How often do you find a coral reef in a tide pool? I profess to not being a reef expert, but I didn't think reefs exist in tide pools. But I could be wrong. Sure there might be some corals that exist perfectly well in tide pools, but it doesn't mean that all corals can exist in tide pool. It's like saying because seals are mammals, and can stay under water for 30 minutes (or however long they can stay underwater) - then humans (also mammals) should be able to survive underwater for an hour. What need to do is find the lowest common denominator and use that as the guidelines for our tank.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7872743#post7872743 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BenH98
Didn't Dr. Ron Shimek at the last meeting say that some tidepools swing as much as 10 - 15 degrees?

 

[Reefugee]

BTW - I would love to hear what Eric Borneman has to say about this issue. I have a lot more faith in what he has to say.

 

[dots]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7875377#post7875377 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r


Your rocks are a double-edged benefit: they hold cold or heat longer

True, if it was dense rock, the heat has to reach the rock, very little energy radiant energy gets to it because the water is a sponge and heat will go to the easiest sink, the water. But the rock we have in the tank is very porous. With the liverock we have the energy stored because of radiant energy would be minimal. Remember, its mostly hollow thats why it acts like a filter.

 

[dots]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7875752#post7875752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefugee
Saying that tide pools swing by as much as 10 to 15 degrees doesn't necessarily applies to our tanks. How often do you find a coral reef in a tide pool? I profess to not being a reef expert, but I didn't think reefs exist in tide pools. But I could be wrong. Sure there might be some corals that exist perfectly well in tide pools, but it doesn't mean that all corals can exist in tide pool. It's like saying because seals are mammals, and can stay under water for 30 minutes (or however long they can stay underwater) - then humans (also mammals) should be able to survive underwater for an hour. What need to do is find the lowest common denominator and use that as the guidelines for our tank.

That was my point, sure some can survive in that enviroment, but what percentage?

Dang it......I didn't want to debate this errrr.....I just don't want you guys to loose your tanks by pushing the temp range, thats it...Im out

 

[Justin74]

Ive heard Eric Borneman touchdown briefly on the subject, and Im sure he'd agree with those figures. He has also gone into how large flats of exposed acropora,pocillopora and some others are exposed to all sorts of natural elements, noon sun, rain, etc several hours at a time.

Major difference though is they would never say this is the norm for our tanks, nor should it be. I think this keeps getting mentioned so in a way to dispell the idea of fragility andshow the lack of stability in natural reefs. But in a closed system its the flip side of the coin.Because we cant possibly emulate the planktonic abundance or hope to come close to the dilution and filtration capacities of nature.

Speaking of Eric Borneman, really looking foward to him speaking in a couple months. That guy has some major convictions and passions for the reef and its inhabitants. I could listen to him all day talk shop, super smart guy.

Dang! Now that reminds me I never gave you guys my comments and stuff for the WMC! Needless to say it was all high marks, but I did give you guys some nice words Id like you all to hear, and I know you deserve to.I'll try and remember to bring it to the next meeting.

-Justin