Solana SH Design

[wastememphis]

I'm in the purchasing stages of my new SH tank and I was wondering if I could get a critique from people who have experience with SH's.

Tank:
34 Gallon Solana Tank - 20"x20"x20"
Stock Skimmer/Return Pump

Lighting:
Current USA - Nova Extreme Pro T5 Lighting

Circulation:
Vortech MP20

Controller:
Aquacontroller Jr.

Auto-Top Off:
Tunze Osmolator

Chiller:
Still looking for some input on this one!

Plan on setting the tank up in May when I move back to Buffalo... I already have the rock in and old 90 gallon tank and need to buy some sand. Any input is appreciated! I would like to see what people are using for chilling the tanks ~ 72*

 

[Airwolf75]

I use the 34G Solana for my Seahorses, it works great actually. Drop the circulation pump, won't need it in a SH tank. You can run a 1/15hp inline Chiller if you swap out the stock pump for a Mag5

Really you can get a warmer water seahorse like H. erectus and leave the temp in the high 70's

 

[rayjay]

Most seahorses kept by hobbyists can live in water in the higher 70's.
However, the reason for keeping them in cooler water is to control harmful bacteria like vibrio, which thrive in the warmer waters we normally would keep in a normal salt water tank. It doesn't guarantee protection, but the lower the temperature, the harder it is for the bacteria like vibrio to grow and kill our horses.
So far I've been able to control the temperature by placing two large fans so that they blow directly on the tank as the central air does most of the work.

 

[wastememphis]

Airwolf, do you have pictures of your set up?

I want to keep gorgs and some LPS in the tank thats the reason I was looking into the Vortech, to not have constant flow.

Rayjay, my house might get up to like 85* in the summer, not sure if fans will make enough evaporation to bring it down... I'll see while its cycling before I buy a chiller.

 

[rayjay]

Just thought to mention that LPS corals that sting, like the hammer corals, are not recommended for seahorse keeping.

 

[wastememphis]

Looking from the sea horse website that has compatability charts, I was planning on keeping ricoreda/acans/candy coral... they seem to be alright with them. Have you ever tried these with SH's?

 

[rayjay]

No, I haven't tried any LPS just gorgonians which went slowly downhill and died after I lowered the temperature of the tank to the 70° to 72° F range.
Originally the tank temperature was around 78 but after having a bout with Vibio, I decided it wasn't worth it to have corals if it could cost me seahorses.
Vibrio is still possible at the lower temperature but far less likely and it has been a few years since that change now.

 

[Airwolf75]

I have a few shots of the full tank, will upload them next time i'm home. I keep ricordia, some leather corals, and mushrooms. 1 small gorgonian. I live in Vegas, so my tank is going to be warmer anyway, since keeping your house under 8-0 in the summer is a pain. So I elected to keep tropical species. Had them for 1 year now.

Chilling a tank to prevent vibrio, seems pointless to me personally, especially with a tropical seahorse. It seems as the other fellow has jumped to many conclusions with little data.

People also tell me a temp over 82 will prevent ich, yeah right.

 

[rayjay]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14646570#post14646570 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Airwolf75
Chilling a tank to prevent vibrio, seems pointless to me personally, especially with a tropical seahorse. It seems as the other fellow has jumped to many conclusions with little data.

In the online seahorse world, the facts are well known that it is safer to keep the temperatures low.
In fact, when problems arise with seahorses, the first recommendation is to drop the temperature of the water to 68°F whether it's a tropic species or temperate one.
This doesn't mean that all seahorses kept in tanks at higher temperatures will have problems but that the odds of bacterial outbreaks will be much greater.
The majority of people who have purchased seahorses and post online, appear to have experienced problems, if you read archived postings over the last 3 or 4 years.

People also tell me a temp over 82 will prevent ich, yeah right.

I've never heard that one, but I do know many state that the higher temperatures will spur the Ick cycle to a faster state.

 

[mollymonticello]

Vibrio sp. bacteria are more aggressive and virulent at temperatures higher than 74* F. Ask any of the regulars on the seahorse specific forums.

I use a 1/10 HP Pacific Coast Imports chiller to chill my 55 and 37 gallon connected tanks. It was used when I bought it about 2 years ago and is still going strong. You'll likely just need a small nano chiller.

I've kept many corals and tropical fish in my tank which goes as low as 67 in the winter. I have 3 Sun Corals, a Turbinaria, 8 Gorgonians of 5 different species, mushrooms, Zoanthus, a Duncan (not with seahorses), Pipe organ, etc. and they do great. My photosynthetic Gorgonians have tripled in size since I got them. I frag them often and give them to my reef club. The only corals I can't keep are Acros (Duh) and some other SPS like Montiporas and Porites.

 

[wastememphis]

Thanks Molly!

Do you have pictures of your tank? It sounds awesome with all the gorgorians! What are you using for water movement to keep them??

 

[wastememphis]

Thanks Molly!

Do you have pictures of your tank? It sounds awesome with all the gorgorians! What are you using for water movement to keep them??

 

[Airwolf75]

Still you have not provided any evidence that keeping tropical seahorses in cold water is good for them, or does anything. The stories are compelling but not really proving anything.

The breeder who actually raised my seahorses, told me anywhere between 72 and 77, it's all online Seahorsesource.com

Now people who have no idea even which kind of seahorse is going to be kept are throwing out temperatures. I'm sorry, but that is not appropriate.

Online Seahorse postings are a weak source of information, first of all people without problems don't post about having problems, so the info is already skewed. Not to mention a complete inability to verify the accuracy of any info.

If you want to talk about odds and facts, the odds and facts are that if you study the natural environment of your chosen species and/or follow the recommendations of the breeder, you'll be sucessful

 

[David123]

How would one go about proving this, you have your mind made up, people say to use lower temps, tell you why, but you negate all who say contrary to your beliefs.

Seriously, how do we go about convincing you. If you know anything about science you will understand what is being spoken of is true, sadly, you don't, and so, deny logic.

So if breeders say a temp then its alright, mkay.

How well did H. capensis go when people took advise from the original breeder.

How well did H. abdominalis go when people took advise from the original first exporter breeder.

Both species died very fast, as IMO keloggi are doing, simply because they were kept to warm.

Seahorses carry vibro, there has been a lot of study on this, and elevated temperatures cab cause stress, and so, their immune system is compromised, resultant end, vibro runs rampant, and the seahorse gets sick/dies.

There are so many cases of this.

Look back in the site, or any seahorse specific site, 99.9999% of all emergency cases are during summer, and strangly enuf, when asked temps, all have tanks in the high 70s, never a case from low 70s.

I am no longer breeding seahorses, but when i was breeding I always told people to keep their horses a lot lower than the "norm"

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14654767#post14654767 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Airwolf75
Still you have not provided any evidence that keeping tropical seahorses in cold water is good for them, or does anything. The stories are compelling but not really proving anything.

The breeder who actually raised my seahorses, told me anywhere between 72 and 77, it's all online Seahorsesource.com

Now people who have no idea even which kind of seahorse is going to be kept are throwing out temperatures. I'm sorry, but that is not appropriate.

Online Seahorse postings are a weak source of information, first of all people without problems don't post about having problems, so the info is already skewed. Not to mention a complete inability to verify the accuracy of any info.

If you want to talk about odds and facts, the odds and facts are that if you study the natural environment of your chosen species and/or follow the recommendations of the breeder, you'll be sucessful

 

[Airwolf75]

Nope, still not sold. That was the best try so far, but you're going up against the SeahorseSource, the source of the current information I do believe. You need to really pull out your A game because they are good. I need things like references, scientific studies. Real life things that I can actually acquire written by reputable sources.

Plus I was recently looking for seahorses in a seagrass bed in Belize, it was like 85 degree water according to the boat, and alas they were there. Then people start telling me to keep those guys at 69 degrees. Noiw if you saw a fish in 85 degree water, and someone told you to put it in 69, are you saying you'd go ahead and do it? Without question. You got to overcome that too. Why's temp only bother them in captivity? Sounds to me like there's more at play.

I think progress evolves from asking tough questions, challenge the status quo.

Oh here's a tank pic I promised for the one guy, needs some more sea life, but I QT everything for 2 months so it’s taking a long time to fill it up. The second is a pic of the main tank, since I was taking pictures. Look how nice that looks; it's only 7 months old.
http://greatauksociety.com/aquarium/seahorsetank.jpg
http://greatauksociety.com/aquarium/aquarium.jpg

 

[rayjay]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14654767#post14654767 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Airwolf75
The breeder who actually raised my seahorses, told me anywhere between 72 and 77, it's all online Seahorsesource.com

It would be interesting to e-mail DanU at seahorsesource and ask him which end of that recommendation he would prefer you to keep them at.
Unfortunately, new seahorse keepers see the ones that do succeed in keeping horses at the higher end and figure it's ok for them too, but in fact, I believe the majority of horses are lost due to bacterial infestations occurring at the warmer temperatures.
Just check out the problems people have at the org. and most problems occur in warmer tanks. Also, see how many have problems compared to active members.
While many members succeed and are not posting of their successes, there are many others who fail and don't post. Human Nature I guess.
Just look at how many members there have been on the org. and how many are active now. While many not active now quit for loosing interest, probably the majority quit because of repeated failures.

 

[mollymonticello]

Airwolf, the David posting here was a commercial seahorse breeder in Australia and one of the first people to successfully breed seahorses in captivity and deserves our respect.

Breeding seahorses at higher temps is commonplace. Keep in mind, breeding setups are cleaner and receive more attention than the average hobbyist's tank which is a breeding ground for bacteria.

I think Dan (from Seahorsesource.com and indisputably the most reputable breeder in the seahorse community) raises his SH at higher temps than we keep them, but recommends to hobbyists to keep their temps below 74*F.

Martin Belli M.D., a pathologist and one of the authors of "Working Notes A Guide To Seahorse Diseases," has been studying Virbio in seahorses for years. He also recommends hobbyists keep them below 74*F. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was he that realized there is a protein in Vibrio that changes at temps higher than 74, thus lowering immune response to the bacteria.

Scientific field studies in the wild about seahorses and temperature are useless to hobbyists. In the wild bacteria counts are lower due to dilution and low bio loads. Things are very, very different in our home aquariums. The Reidis you likely found in Belize live in water temperatures ranging from 71* to 93* ref. http://www.scielo.br/pdf/babt/v51n4/v51n4a12.pdf But that doesn't mean you should keep them at 93*, right?

And just because seahorses can survive for a short time in very high temps in the wild, they aren't subjected to those temps year round. That would be like saying "I caught a Catalina goby in 75* water. I'll think keep it in my reef tank."