That's right, they were comparing the entire fixture, which was the 14" version. The 14" version has 25 LEDs at 3 watts each equals 75 watts. That's for the 14" fixture. A 48" Solaris fixture has four banks of 25 LEDs each. That a total of 100 LEDs for the 48" fixture, which is four times the light output of the fixture reviewed in Advanced Aquarist.
Solaris Led lighting systems
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Untamed12
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I agree, Guildford...but there may have been an area compensation applied since the MH cast it's light over a wider area.
I guess this is all just a waste of words. Suffice to say that I, personally, am very interested in these things because I need to decide how I'm going to light the tank that I'm currently building.
Until we get some hands-on experiences from people who've switched from T5 or MH to LED...we're just speculating.
So...to all those who are awaiting delivery...I'm really interested in some personal experience as soon as you feel ready to share.
I guess this is all just a waste of words. Suffice to say that I, personally, am very interested in these things because I need to decide how I'm going to light the tank that I'm currently building.
Until we get some hands-on experiences from people who've switched from T5 or MH to LED...we're just speculating.
So...to all those who are awaiting delivery...I'm really interested in some personal experience as soon as you feel ready to share.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
When these luxeon LEDs were developed, the output/watt of LED's was not quite what you can find today. Only within the past two years have discoveries been made that allow the lumens/PAR per watt of LED's to surpass that of halides, and these developments take some time to end up in our homes. The rapid development of LED's has lead to many MFG's simply 'holding tight' in anticipation of when the tech might finally be ready to mass produce, without the threat of simply being surpassed in a few months like right now.
The good news is, from any way you look at it, that 'buy-in' is very expensive right now, but its only a matter of a few years before we are replacing our halides and T5s with LED's, and since reflectors and ballasts will go away in the process, the ease of use, longevity, hundreds of available spectrums, and low heat output of these devices will be a great deal for all of us, and prolly be cheaper to buy in the long run than any other lighting we use.
The good news is, from any way you look at it, that 'buy-in' is very expensive right now, but its only a matter of a few years before we are replacing our halides and T5s with LED's, and since reflectors and ballasts will go away in the process, the ease of use, longevity, hundreds of available spectrums, and low heat output of these devices will be a great deal for all of us, and prolly be cheaper to buy in the long run than any other lighting we use.
RichConley
New member
Again Fliger, grow up. Please provide evidence that anything I have said in this thread is incorrect. STAY ON TOPIC.
I HAVE NEVER said you need to be 30+" deep to use 400w. I just said theyre entirely not needed until you go that deep.
I have no idea what the hell your talking about with the $200 comment.
No, I havent owned a 200+ gallon tank. WHat the hell does that have to do with any of this. Again. GROW UP AND STAY ON TOPIC, OR TAKE IT TO PM.
Fliger
New member
Well put Untamed12. My thoughts exactly. I can't wait to see it.
Man Rich - just like the last time, you really are paranoid aren't you (take the meds!!). I have stayed on topic unlike your last few posts. I don't know why you think this is all about you. Trust me, I'm all grow'd up with a real job and career and lots of fun toys. Thanks for your concern though!
BTW the $200 comment was the rise in Cindy's electricity bill. All the MH she added not only sucked MH wattage, but chilling a 200+ gallon tank is pricey. But you wouldn't know that since you haven't owned one. Yet you commented. Get it?
Man Rich - just like the last time, you really are paranoid aren't you (take the meds!!). I have stayed on topic unlike your last few posts. I don't know why you think this is all about you. Trust me, I'm all grow'd up with a real job and career and lots of fun toys. Thanks for your concern though!
BTW the $200 comment was the rise in Cindy's electricity bill. All the MH she added not only sucked MH wattage, but chilling a 200+ gallon tank is pricey. But you wouldn't know that since you haven't owned one. Yet you commented. Get it?
steve the plumb
In Memoriam
PFO still states that the lights do get hot.The unit is vented and cooled with a fan from above the unit.Other than hanging it from the ceiling or mounting it on the tank I don't think you can place it inside a canopy.Those with a canopy more than likely will have to vent it properly even then if its not desighned to be used in a canopy it does leave out alot of potential buyers.Flinger the 9020 is 2 9015 stuck together with a foam fractionator instead of a collection cup
toastman
New member
Hey tacocat, that 175watt 2700k MH did cost a bundle, it was made by a little company called Hamiton Technology, right when they were just starting out......lol.... I have two nice Peristaltic, "waterchange" pumps new in boxes from those days too....never got around to using them, might use them now.....
jmkins
New member
While upgrading from PCs to MH will definetly cause an increase in electrical use, chilling a tank during mid-summer in Arizona is likely to be the culprit. That or increased AC usage. There are several things to look at when cutting back on electricity besides lights, most likely even with the LEDs running the electric bill will go up $150+ during summer.
I do believe that LEDs will eventually take over the reef lighting market, but without spectral plots, or true equivalent comparisons to typical lighting set-ups I would not sink money into them. The technology still has a lot of room for improvement and the second, or third, generations of LEDs will have significant improvements over these first releases. Thats not saying that these prototypes will not be sufficient, but rather that the current state of the art LED technology has to first prove itself versus the readily available and cheaper alternatives.
With that said, I really look forward to the day when my lighting is progammable over the entire range of spectrums and can hook up to the internet to mimick the lighting conditions of any given reef at any given moment. I dont see anything but LED being able to do this in the near future.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Actually, most of the bright white LEDs have spectral curves very similar or identical to the ones in the Solaris... very nice spectrums. Add to that the LEDs you can buy with specific outputs that peak at 420nm and 450nm, and you get the idea.
As is, there are several people over at nano-reef.com that are making and using LED arrays (including myself) on nanos with great results. I wouldnt say that the spectrums need improvement... just the output, which is exactly what has been happening over the past few years... the technology is accelerating faster than computers, and in just the last couple years the efficiency has in fact surpassed that of halide... only we wont see it in our homes/reefs for a bit longer... factories take a while to build after all...
As is, there are several people over at nano-reef.com that are making and using LED arrays (including myself) on nanos with great results. I wouldnt say that the spectrums need improvement... just the output, which is exactly what has been happening over the past few years... the technology is accelerating faster than computers, and in just the last couple years the efficiency has in fact surpassed that of halide... only we wont see it in our homes/reefs for a bit longer... factories take a while to build after all...
cindyolson
New member
Just to be clear. My AC unit is programmed; it has not changed in 10 years. My chiller ran the previous 2 summers (one of those summers was in the un-air conditioned garage where my tank had to live while having tile put in to replace carpet). It was not until I added the MH light fixture that my electric bill increased. I even removed additional power heads and a hood to help with water heat that I had while the tank lived in the garage.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Did you increase your evaporative cooling or try ducting your hood/canopy to the outside? That can save alot.
hahnmeister, the efficiency of high power LEDs is nowhere close to that of MH, its actually less than half. The differences seen between the Solaris fixture and MH fixtures has to do with the way the light is distributed, not due to the fact that the LEDs are more efficient in producing light. They are less than 50 lm/watt for the whites, and much less than that for blue, compared to 90-100lm/w for MH. Look at the data sheets on Lumileds website.
steve the plumb
In Memoriam
If they are not energy saving the only factor would be they last longer but at such a high cost is it worth it.I never looked at my electric bill to see what I pay for this tank I have.For one I spend so much on the hobby whats an extra $30 a month.I have all my bills both of dead and alive plus equipement.I never sat down to do a hard cost callculation.I don't think I would want to.It may make me want to give up the hobby.It doesn't seem to me that theses lights are as bright as mh.The system itself looks cool.I do have on online vendor here in Canada that sells them but I don't know if he is using them or if he has recieved them yet.Would be interesting to see if has tryed the lighting system on any of his tanks.Someone has mentioned that even with the differance in the dollar its cheaper in the states.The solaris 48" 13k sells for $2439 CDN plus tax.In the US you can save the tax.Sales tax here is close to 16%when you buy online from a vendor you pay 7%.We are taxed to death here in Canada.There are much bettere deals in the states if you shop around.
RichConley
New member
No fliger, I havent owned on. I have serviced on though, so I do know, and you most certainly CAN run a 200+ without a chiller.
You stayed on topic? How about the comments about cars? about skimmers? How are they anything to do with this thread?
Again, what have I said about the Solaris that is wrong?
RichConley
New member
Upgrading from PCs to MH actually is a decrease in electricity for an equivalent amoutn of light. IE 250w of metal halide is more light than 500w of PCs, and produces a heck of a lot less heat.
Does MH produce more IR than PC (ie radiant heat)? Since they burn hotter, it would seem that they do. If so that could explain why per watt MH heats the water more than PCs, even though PCs are less efficient. The waste heat from a light fixture should only heat a tank if its enclosed in a hood, for pendants or top mounted lights waste heat should rise above the tank and not affect it no matter what the light source is.
RichConley, I don't see anything wrong with your posts on this thread, your pur/par ratio post on the first page makes sense to me.
RichConley, I don't see anything wrong with your posts on this thread, your pur/par ratio post on the first page makes sense to me.
cindyolson
New member
WOW. I've never known anyone to get third degree burn from PC's, but I have personal experience from MH. That seems a little hotter to me.
Hahnmeister, I removed the hood all together and the tank sits under an AC vent. I get between 3-5 gals of evap per day.
And for whoever said you can run a tank without a chiller does not live in AZ. You have to remember that we get over a hundred days a year at 105 or more. The tank I had previously did not have a chiller because I did not have room. It was all I could do to keep it at 83.
We had a power outage once for a couple of hours, my tank temp rose to 87 and I lost about 5k of coral and fish. So now I have a UPS on my tank, not my computer (computer is cheaper to replace) and I keep the temp at 77 year round. BTW, the chiller also runs year round to keep it at 77, the weather does not allow for that naturally...
Can we now stop all the bickering and wait until I actually get the lights and see how they work? I'll be sure to let you all know how they look, I'll even post before and after pics, then I'll let you know where my electric bill is after they have been on for a full month. All the bickering is just speculation and until they arrive and are in production or test if you wish no one has any real facts or statistics.
RichConley
New member
Thats a product of trying to compare a 250+w bulb to a 65w bulb. We're not talking about how hot something is, but how much heat it produces. The PCs produce more heat per watt, they just spread it out more.
I posted a big post about watts/PUR a page back, with all the math to back it up. Thats real facts.
You're sacrafising intensity for wattage here. Yes, your tank will run cooler, and yes, your electric bill will go down, but so will the light your corals are getting. You would have gotten the same effect switching from 400s to 250s or 175s.
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