Some new fish...
- Thread starter Recty
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Recty
New member
I use the Seachem test kit, since Seachem makes Cupramine I try to use their test kits to measure it.
It's not necessarily an easy test but it isnt hard either. The thing I dont like is you have to dip a stick in some powder and then into a little container of tank water, and if you get too much or too little powder it throws your results off, so you need to make sure to get the same amount every time.
It's not necessarily an easy test but it isnt hard either. The thing I dont like is you have to dip a stick in some powder and then into a little container of tank water, and if you get too much or too little powder it throws your results off, so you need to make sure to get the same amount every time.
Recty
New member
Hmmm, I never have yet had a fish die during copper treatment, but I have seen them start acting sicker and sicker almost just like they dont feel good, and I've always stopped treatment or removed that fish.
I've certainly never seen one just somersault and die, but I'll watch for it.
I've certainly never seen one just somersault and die, but I'll watch for it.
Recty
New member
I just thought I'd get some pictures of the ich, I've actually really enjoyed being able to go back through this "diary" type thread and see good examples of what the fish were like and are like now. It cant hurt to document, hopefully someone besides me is learning something.
I had thought I wouldnt treat for almost a week but decided to on Sunday, I'm really glad I did, the emperor has quite a bit more ich on him than he did on Sunday.
I sharpened the picture so the ich is real visible, if you're actually standing here looking at the fish it isnt nearly as easy to see.
All 4 of the flames seem to have ich, one has it pretty badly and the other three just having some spotting on the fins. The 4th one has it on the body and the fins.
The lemonpeel just has it a little on the fins and maybe a spot or two on the body, nothing too bad yet.
I dont know if this picture will show the detail or not, but the queen has it showing as well.
Just a couple days ago I took a bunch of pictures of the queen and couldnt see any ich, now she has quite a bit.
These ones from just Friday night show her having nothing visible at least.
The convicts all have it, but again not too badly.
The dussu is hiding, he comes out to eat but then zips right back into the rocks again, I dont think he cares much for the copper. Same with the blueface and majestic, they all are eating fine but they arent swimming around the tank in plain view anymore.
I had thought I wouldnt treat for almost a week but decided to on Sunday, I'm really glad I did, the emperor has quite a bit more ich on him than he did on Sunday.
I sharpened the picture so the ich is real visible, if you're actually standing here looking at the fish it isnt nearly as easy to see.
All 4 of the flames seem to have ich, one has it pretty badly and the other three just having some spotting on the fins. The 4th one has it on the body and the fins.
The lemonpeel just has it a little on the fins and maybe a spot or two on the body, nothing too bad yet.
I dont know if this picture will show the detail or not, but the queen has it showing as well.
Just a couple days ago I took a bunch of pictures of the queen and couldnt see any ich, now she has quite a bit.
These ones from just Friday night show her having nothing visible at least.
The convicts all have it, but again not too badly.
The dussu is hiding, he comes out to eat but then zips right back into the rocks again, I dont think he cares much for the copper. Same with the blueface and majestic, they all are eating fine but they arent swimming around the tank in plain view anymore.
Gotta love the fun! If it makes it any better, I had moved the purple tang into the 10 with the clown trigs because the tang was looking like the copper was getting to it, so now a few days later the purple tang looks worse and the trigs have a dusting on them that is really fine. So I did a 90% water change on the 55 and left the copper out and put the tang back in there, and coppered the 10 with the trigs. FUN!!!
Recty
New member
There is definitely some drama that comes into play when ich is showing it's ugly face in the tank.
I'm not really worried this time, I know I keep saying that but I dont feel worried anyway. Everyone made it through last time just fine except the butterfly which was a risk treating with copper anyway, plus I think I was way overfeeding since I took my skimmer out of commission during that time, so my water quality probably dropped enough it was hard on a fish that already wasnt doing so hot.
This time I'm only feeding twice a day and just small meals of pellets, no frozen or anything else to go drift around and rot anywhere. So hopefully water quality doesnt become an issue at all, but only time will tell.
I'm not really worried this time, I know I keep saying that but I dont feel worried anyway. Everyone made it through last time just fine except the butterfly which was a risk treating with copper anyway, plus I think I was way overfeeding since I took my skimmer out of commission during that time, so my water quality probably dropped enough it was hard on a fish that already wasnt doing so hot.
This time I'm only feeding twice a day and just small meals of pellets, no frozen or anything else to go drift around and rot anywhere. So hopefully water quality doesnt become an issue at all, but only time will tell.
Recty
New member
Everyone is doing good except the emperor angel... which sucks.
All 5 dwarfs are eating like pigs and acting like their normal selves.
The dussu tang is hiding a lot which it normally doesnt do, but it is still eating and swimming around from time to time, you can tell it just doesnt seem to really like the copper treatment but it's going to make it.
The blueface and majestic havent really changed the way they are at all, still hiding quite a bit but both are still interested in food and eating.
The convict tangs are doing great, they havent changed a bit. I'm seriously debating borrowing a trap from a LFS though and catching out three, just leaving one. They are chasing each other around a lot now, like way more than the last couple weeks. They arent really hurting each other but they scare the other fish more and more. I dont know if it has to do with me not feeding much while I dont have my skimmer running or what is causing it, but it isnt "natural" I dont think. I think my tank is too small or at least too crowded to have 4 convicts in it. But I'm not quite ready to give up yet.
The emperor isnt swimming much, but when he does swim he looks just fine, not like jerky or off balance or anything. He just looks a little pale and he has some large white spots showing on both his sides instead of the smaller little white blotches. He isnt interested in food at all either. I find it odd that he is handling the copper the worst of all of them, I was sure the little dwarfs would have issues and they are doing great.
I've noticed my pH is dropping with the cupramine treatment, so I'll be adding some sort of a pH buffer tomorrow to start slowly raising it up to a more normal level. Over the last 4 days since I started treating it has dropped from 8.2 to 7.9. I've always been a big fan of not caring about the actual number of pH, I mainly care about it being steady, but I think 7.9 is too low, I'll be raising it slowly again. I'm hoping that is maybe what is causing the emperor to not feel good.
A picture of him from a minute ago...
Notice the large blotches on his side, he has the same type of marking on his other side as well. They arent identical or anything, but the same type. Also up by his lower jaw he has some blotching going on.
Hopefully he gets no worse, if he does, I'm going to do a big water change just to do it and keep on maintaining my copper levels.
All 5 dwarfs are eating like pigs and acting like their normal selves.
The dussu tang is hiding a lot which it normally doesnt do, but it is still eating and swimming around from time to time, you can tell it just doesnt seem to really like the copper treatment but it's going to make it.
The blueface and majestic havent really changed the way they are at all, still hiding quite a bit but both are still interested in food and eating.
The convict tangs are doing great, they havent changed a bit. I'm seriously debating borrowing a trap from a LFS though and catching out three, just leaving one. They are chasing each other around a lot now, like way more than the last couple weeks. They arent really hurting each other but they scare the other fish more and more. I dont know if it has to do with me not feeding much while I dont have my skimmer running or what is causing it, but it isnt "natural" I dont think. I think my tank is too small or at least too crowded to have 4 convicts in it. But I'm not quite ready to give up yet.
The emperor isnt swimming much, but when he does swim he looks just fine, not like jerky or off balance or anything. He just looks a little pale and he has some large white spots showing on both his sides instead of the smaller little white blotches. He isnt interested in food at all either. I find it odd that he is handling the copper the worst of all of them, I was sure the little dwarfs would have issues and they are doing great.
I've noticed my pH is dropping with the cupramine treatment, so I'll be adding some sort of a pH buffer tomorrow to start slowly raising it up to a more normal level. Over the last 4 days since I started treating it has dropped from 8.2 to 7.9. I've always been a big fan of not caring about the actual number of pH, I mainly care about it being steady, but I think 7.9 is too low, I'll be raising it slowly again. I'm hoping that is maybe what is causing the emperor to not feel good.
A picture of him from a minute ago...
Notice the large blotches on his side, he has the same type of marking on his other side as well. They arent identical or anything, but the same type. Also up by his lower jaw he has some blotching going on.
Hopefully he gets no worse, if he does, I'm going to do a big water change just to do it and keep on maintaining my copper levels.
Recty
New member
Yeah, I hope it's just stress. I just think it's odd that one of the biggest and most boisterous fish in the system is handling the copper the hardest, where the little and more finicky fish that supposedly dont do good in copper and having the time of their lives.
I'm glad the other angels arent picking on the emperor at all while he's not feeling good, he still just gives a dirty look in the direction of another fish and they get out of the way, so he hasnt lost that
I'm glad the other angels arent picking on the emperor at all while he's not feeling good, he still just gives a dirty look in the direction of another fish and they get out of the way, so he hasnt lost that
DamnPepShrimp
Moved On
I have found that emperors are very touchy actually, not as hardy as people think. Atleast in my case. I've had a few emperors over the years and they were the ones to always show signs of sickness first and take it the hardest along with treatment the worst as well too. I hope your emperor pulls through though, keep us updated.
Recty
New member
Yeah, I'm not real impressed with the hardiness of this guy.
He got HLLE horrible when everyone else just showed a couple spots of it, if any.
He is acting all funny and looking splotchy with the copper treatment when the supposedly copper sensitive fish are all doing great.
He isnt even acting interested in food right now and everyone else is chowing down.
I guess he will be my "canary in the mine" type of fish, when he starts acting funny I'll know that something is a little off even though everyone else is doing great.
He got HLLE horrible when everyone else just showed a couple spots of it, if any.
He is acting all funny and looking splotchy with the copper treatment when the supposedly copper sensitive fish are all doing great.
He isnt even acting interested in food right now and everyone else is chowing down.
I guess he will be my "canary in the mine" type of fish, when he starts acting funny I'll know that something is a little off even though everyone else is doing great.
I know you know all of this--I did too. Watch those pH drops.
I am still too traumatized to talk about my experiences recently with that (the fish I have left are fine--I am only just starting to recover), but...
Dull color, "splotchy"-ness, listlessness, not acting "right" all are symptoms of pH too low.
Also...don't go out of town for a week...EVER
I am still too traumatized to talk about my experiences recently with that (the fish I have left are fine--I am only just starting to recover), but...
Dull color, "splotchy"-ness, listlessness, not acting "right" all are symptoms of pH too low.
Also...don't go out of town for a week...EVER
Recty
New member
Wow, sounds like you had a rough time. BTW, your phone number doesnt work anymore, I tried to call you the other day to see how the fish are doing.
Yep, I'm going to be raising my pH tonight starting slowly and I'll be raising it all weekend as needed. I'm going to try not to do a water change this weekend just so it's easier to keep copper dosed, but if I have to I will.
Yep, I'm going to be raising my pH tonight starting slowly and I'll be raising it all weekend as needed. I'm going to try not to do a water change this weekend just so it's easier to keep copper dosed, but if I have to I will.
Zoom
Premium Member
Emperor
Emperor
Can you check your Oxygen content in your Water?
I bet is way off with out the skimmer and the copper treatment.
The ph drop is good indication of O2 depletion.
Many times i just put a air stone in the tank and open the windows to get the O2 up.
Salifert makes a good O2 test kit.
Did you check for Ammonia/Nitrite ?
Emperor
Can you check your Oxygen content in your Water?
I bet is way off with out the skimmer and the copper treatment.
The ph drop is good indication of O2 depletion.
Many times i just put a air stone in the tank and open the windows to get the O2 up.
Salifert makes a good O2 test kit.
Did you check for Ammonia/Nitrite ?
Last edited:
Recty
New member
I have my ORP probe, without the skimmer on the ORP level has dropped down to about 315 instead of around 350-375.
I have a 12" airstone bubbling away at max in the sump and it's summer here, I have the deck doors open on both sides of the house for about 3 months straight, we aren't having a CO2 buildup.
I didnt check ammonia and nitrite but I've seen the signs before enough to know what my fish would be doing if there was ammonia in the tank, so I dont think it's that. I suppose I could always test although I think the copper medication can throw off the tests?
I have a 12" airstone bubbling away at max in the sump and it's summer here, I have the deck doors open on both sides of the house for about 3 months straight, we aren't having a CO2 buildup.
I didnt check ammonia and nitrite but I've seen the signs before enough to know what my fish would be doing if there was ammonia in the tank, so I dont think it's that. I suppose I could always test although I think the copper medication can throw off the tests?
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