Some new fish...

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at many of the best lfs here in upstate NY, the bulk of the reef tanks I have seen are uncovered. I have began this process myself. There is no "ocean" smell and I agree that better oxygen exchange can take place as a result. The immediate downside is that more evaporation occurs, requiring daily water top offs. In the winter despite all of the snow, our homes are extremely dry. But with an aquarium, the evaporated water humidifies the air, counteracting the lack of humidity, making living here more pleasant. What an excuse to get a fish tank, a built in humidifier!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15057986#post15057986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by anbosu
At one atmosphere (the pressure on the earth's surface) water can absorb a certain maximum amount of oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc. Unless your glass tops are capable of creating a vacuum and sealing the contents of your tank at high pressure, it is physically impossible to have more than that maxiumum percentage of gas in the water. At differing amounts of pressure water can absorb more or less gas, but our tanks are generally not going to be large enough to really have this be an issue. Gas exchange is exactly what you are thinking, and if a skimmer is adding oxygen to the water, then it is clearly exchanging that oxygen for something else. It is probably going to be carbon dioxide -- it could be nitrogen or some other gaseous element in water, but an exchange is what is occurring. The only way it wouldn't be an exchange is if your tank had very low saturation levels before you started running your skimmer.
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I'm not saying it will trap all gas. I understand one atmosphere and vacuums etc. But there has been many instances where people have had lids covering their tank and resulted in improper gas exchange and stinking/who knows what else it could eventually cause. I think it is better to have the top of the tank uncovered, but in some circumstances (mine and Recty's) there isn't really an option, we need lids.
 
I've been talking with Seachem's tech support over the last couple days, one thing I found interesting for those who use Seachem's Prime and also Cupramine...

I asked them about how long after using Prime could I safely add cupramine without having it get really toxic.

"Prime will stay in your tank for 48 hours, so it will be safe to dose with Cupramine after two days of using Prime."

Good to know, I think. I've been using Prime quite a bit over the last 4 days as I'm doing pretty frequent water changes to raise my salinity, so at least now I know the safe timing of Cupramine and Prime together. Even if I wanted to treat my tank starting today, I couldnt do it until Saturday night as I used Prime in my water change that occured last night.

Another interesting thing, regarding turning a skimmer down really low while treating with Cupramine... making it so it doesnt collect anything but still bubbles...

"When you are using a protein skimmer, regardless of whether or not it is collecting something, you are effectively knocking something (in the case of skimmers, organics) out of solution. Since Cupramine is a unique organic copper, you may see diminished efficiency when using it in this manner. However, in all likelihood you will still be able to do this while having effective copper in your system, but again you will probably see diminished effectiveness. I personally would not do this method or recommend it, but you would not be harming anything to try it, and if you are not seeing results, then cut the skimmer off."

I guess I'll be using a large airstone or two to keep my water oxygenated while treating with Cupramine.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15058262#post15058262 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Recty
I've been talking with Seachem's tech support over the last couple days, one thing I found interesting for those who use Seachem's Prime and also Cupramine...
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Seachem should put this warning on the bottle. Amquel will have the same results as Prime. Another warning which I left on accidently while using Cupramine is leaving my UV on. UV will break down Cupramine into a more toxic Copper (10x according to Seachem). 3 hours later all my fish were breathing super fast until I realized I left the UV on. I had to perform a large water change and added large amounts of carbon. Luckily I caught it early.
 
Yes, I believe the same is true with an ozonizer, luckily mine runs through my skimmer so there is no way I could leave it on during cupramine treatment.
 
I'm trying to decide how I'm going to get the copper out of my system once I get to the point I need to.

I was almost thinking of taking a 5g bucket, filling it about halfway with activated carbon, drilling a billion small holes in the bottom and just hanging it above my tank for a week. I'd put relatively small volume pump in the tank attached to some vinyl tubing and just continuously circulate water up into the bucket, through the carbon, and back into my tank.

Not the best of ideas, but I'm going to work up something like that I think. My current sump just really doesnt have the space available for me to do large scale carbon projects.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15066256#post15066256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zoom
Can you get anything like this around your area? i had one just for carbon, it hold alat of it.
You can connect it remotely right after your sump return pump.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207567/product.web
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That looks almost exactly like what I have in mind.

I have a spot in my sump where I can do this easily, but instead of putting it after my return pump, I'm going to just hang the bucket from the inside top of the stand and pump into it. I have the perfect spot for it to just drain back into the sump.
 
So... I've never used filter socks until the last couple months and I've never used them with cupramine.

Do I need to remove them? They dont hold any media in them, just simple mechanical filtration. However, they are some type of fabric that I'm assuming will soak up copper...

Anyone have any input as to whether I should remove or not? I'm probably going to whenever I start treating with copper but I'd like to know if anyone else has a thought on it or not.
 
I find it weird, the fish wont eat now... I've got the cupramine dosed to almost exactly .50, probably just a tad higher. It's somewhere between .5 and .6, closer to .5 than .6.

Every fish, both the quarantine tank setups and the main tank inhabitants, are interested in the food, but as soon as they get close, they stop and just watch it.

It's like they CANT eat, not that they dont want to. They arent sampling it either, like pulling it into their mouths then spitting it out... they just arent even trying.

I've only really dealt with triggers and cupramine successfully, and triggers are pretty much bomb proof so I didnt have any issues with them.

Do angels/butterflies/tangs typically respond like this when dealing with a cupramine treatment?

I'm not worried about any of the angels or tangs, they are all very fat and will probably survive just fine for 2-3 weeks without eating, but the butterfly is pretty skinny, I dont know if he would handle it very well.

I have checked ammonia levels, 0 in all tanks so that is reassuring to me.
 
I find that if the copper is tad higher than it suppose to stops the fish from eating , try to go lower .
 
It will go lower real soon, the rock or whatever organic in there is absorbing copper so it will be back to .5 within a couple hours.
 
Basically I've used one whole 100mm bottle just on the DT, which says it is enough to treat 500 gallons... that is in about 3 days.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15081697#post15081697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Recty
Do angels/butterflies/tangs typically respond like this when dealing with a cupramine treatment?

I'm not worried about any of the angels or tangs, they are all very fat and will probably survive just fine for 2-3 weeks without eating, but the butterfly is pretty skinny, I dont know if he would handle it very well.

I have checked ammonia levels, 0 in all tanks so that is reassuring to me.
Click to expand...

My CI Emperor did the same when I treated with Cupramine/Prazi. After a week of him not eating much of anything and showing no actual signs of ich on him, I started water changes without adding any more Prazi, just Cupramine. He started eating again, so I think it is the Prazi in this case or maybe the combination of both meds that did it. He is still in the QT with no meds now.

I have 2 Moorish Idols and a Red Sea Bannerfish that went through Cupramine without any loss of appetite at all. I was hesitant about using Cupramine on the Idols, but they were so covered in ich that I decided to take the chance. I did not use Prazi on them, though.

Good luck!
 
I started my tank on Cupramine this morning. I didn't QT the last fish, the Goldheart, because he "looked clean" from the lfs. Lesson learned there. I noticed a few spots on the Queen and the Pinktail last week. Nothing that bad, but I want to nip it in the bud. right away. All of the fish have some spots now, EXCEPT the Goldheart. The tang only has 3 or 4.

I need to get a different test kit. I have the API, which does not seem too accurate. The scale is not precise at the concentrations that the Cupramine needs to be. I also did a 1/2 dose (20 mil) on a 20 gallon tank for reference, and it barely registered any reading. I will get either the Seachem or Salifert test kit after work.
 
API doesn't work on cupramine, you need salifert test kits. Also, be aware when using cupramine, it can make some ammonia test kits faulty, only certain ones are exact.
 
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