Sonny's Rimless Shallow Reef.

[Amoore311]

Hey Everyone,

I'm wanting to go with this bacteria driven system for my newly set up 180. Right now the tank is mostly LPS and Softies. Once I get my controller and dosing pumps dialed in I will be moving more towards all SPS.

I've been dosing MB7 in my tank for the past 14 Days, 7 Capfuls per day. I should be ready to start with the vodka now. Do you all just follow the Reef Central article for the vodka dosing? Also, how much MB7 should I be adding now that my 2 week "build up" phase is complete?

As far as amino acids and iodine go:

Should I not bother with these until I see reduced color in my corals?


It's easy to tell your method is REALLY catching on Sonny. You can't find MicroBacter7 anywhere lol, almost everyone is back-ordered.


Here's a full tank shot:

 

[newsalt]

I've been using MB7 for several weeks now and so far so good. I'm not dosing any vodka at all. I have a couple spots of HA, but I've been siphoning it out during water changes, and what I take out does not seem to be growing back. About 2 weeks ago, I started to dose 1 drop of Kent's Lugol's. Maybe it's me, but ever since I started dosing the Lugol's, the clarity of the water has really improved. Could it be the Lugol's, or is it just the MB7?

 

[BucNtears]

Sonny, I'm in need of replacing my bulbs again and I'm wanting more of a blue tint. At the moment I'm running 4 blue+ and 2 aquablue specials. Also in doing this will my corals suffer? Anyway this is what I'm thinking of going with 4 blue+, 1 aquablue special and 1 fiji purple.
This bulb setup is for mainly sps, lps and clams
your thoughts

 

[saltydogs]

Sonny, I have a newly set up 72g bowfront w/ a 20g sump (can't go larger due to size cabinet) You have really inspired me to try and achieve a bacteria powered tank. my tank is drilled w/ 2 center overflows and 2 end returns w/ splitter allowing me to have 2 directional arms for flow. I have a separate Mag 5 on each end for return flow, ASM 2 skimmer and a phos reactor to run my carbon(adding soon as it arrives). My sump has no baffles like yours. But I have macro bubbles in my display currently. What do you suggest I do next. My tank (water, sand & rock) was cycled in a 55g before we decided to go to the 72. I have some large hermits, few sand snails, and a mollie that made it thru the cycling. where to next?

 

[nemeth27]

Does anyone who has gotten red cyno during vodka dosing looked like this? I believe I have red cyno but it seems to develop in the am right before my first 2 lights come on. Then once the 2 out out 6 T5s comes on it really starts to spread on the sand. Then when the other 4 lights go on it slowly goes away and before the last two lights go out you can't see it any more. Left un checked the bloom gets worse each day. And when I vacuum it up it is string.
I stopped the vodka 3-4 weeks ago and have been dosing MB7 @ 4 capfuls a day (roughly 80-85 gals total)since then.

 

[A.VOID]

Does anyone who has gotten red cyno during vodka dosing looked like this? I believe I have red cyno but it seems to develop in the am right before my first 2 lights come on. Then once the 2 out out 6 T5s comes on it really starts to spread on the sand. Then when the other 4 lights go on it slowly goes away and before the last two lights go out you can't see it any more. Left un checked the bloom gets worse each day. And when I vacuum it up it is string.
I stopped the vodka 3-4 weeks ago and have been dosing MB7 @ 4 capfuls a day (roughly 80-85 gals total)since then.

If you've had cyano for that long, then hit it with the red slime remover. Everyone has done that at least once.

 

[map95003]

BucnTears....my 2 cents...I have the current bulb configuration you're considering, I've been running with that for ~6 months now. Before I was running 3xBlue+ & 3xAquaBlue Specials. It's a much nicer look and the colors pop more, however I've noticed growth has slowed down a bit....just my experience.

 

[map95003]

Duplicate response... deleted.

 

[map95003]

Hey Sunny, a while back I mentioned I like your 1st tank better, it was the tank that got me hooked on the hobby...I'll have to back peddle a bit...this new tank is amazing! ...another TOTM winner.

 

[Ancelot]

hey Sonny,
I have a question for you.

I am into the 5th week of vodka dosing. GHA is still an *** but I am cutting back on my mb7. Question is I've also noticed that my sandbed, the bottom layer of it has turned black. Is it normal? According to my knowledge, that is hydrogen sulphide and that's bad ain't it. I see/read that you've been gravel washing your sandbed, so likely I am sure you will come across this yourself.

Also, I have noticed that as much as my sand is ravaged with "black" stuff, I've noticed that the sandbed gets coarser despite it's actually Grade 0 coral sand and it's getting pretty hard ie. I feel like my sandbed is dying actually

So, with retrospect to my question, what's your take on my issues?

Happy Reefing,
Marc J.

 

[zachslow]

First off, thanks so much for all of the incredible work you've put into updating the thread. Seriously, I've spend hours reading and you've made a believer out of me! If you don't mind, I'm hoping to ask you a couple of questions before I start your dosing regiment.

I ordered all of my supplies last week, and have been weening my tank off of my old regiment.

I have an Elos 120xl and figure I have about 120 gallons of water after live rock is accounted for.

Can you recommend how much mb7 to dose for the initial 2 weeks, and then the regular maintenance dose after the two weeks? I currently have a bit of diatoms and cyno that i'm hoping will slowly go away.

I currently have an active carbon filter as well as a GFO. I plan on taking out the GFO and then will continue the Carbon 24/7. Sound good?

AS far as the brightwells lugols and seachem stronium goes, how much should i begin dosing, and when should i start? Any suggestions?

It sounds like with the AA's i should hold off a good while and then do it once i notice the corals getting too light. How many drops would you recommend adding?

Thanks again so much! Seriously, you've been a massive influence and a great resource for so many of us.

Hope you're well!

zach

 

[SunnyX]

Thanks Sunny,

I'll give that a go and see what happens.

I had gotten, I don't know, frustrated I guess with my tank and let it go for 6 months or so till I discovered your post. The help you are giving everyone is to be commended. Your patience is amazing and your advice priceless. With your help I have turned my tank around and I think most important gotten me back into it.

Thanks a million.

I am happy that I was able to help. We all get frustrated from time to time, and with frustrations comes a lack of interest. I go through bouts of extreme obsession with my reef, but I also go through bouts disinterest. It happens to all of us. Welcome back! :thumbsup:

Hi Sunny, awsome tank, is that all the live rock you have in the tank, is that enough, no refugium with any LR or macro algae ?
Thank you.

Hello,

My setup has no refugium or live rock anywhere else in the system. I keep minimal rock as it creates a more open scape. Water flows better, and the fish have more room to swim.

Interesting. My thinking was just the opposite, the more rock the better, to give more surface area for the bacteria, especially if dosing vodka. Why do you keep minimal rock?

See above. I believe the sand does a good job making up for the lack of live rock. Besides, live rock over time clogs up and becomes detrimental to the system, usually after 4-5 years depending on the system. You would not believe the amount of detritus that came out of my live rock when I was "cooking" it.

Sonny,

Thx, I was just wondering how to tell if you should add any more additives or AA's for color, or less vodka, MB7 ect...

Its hard to tell just by looking at the tank, what to do what to look for, for the different additives and tank parameters.

Corals too light: Add AA
Brown film: decrease MB7
Cyano: stop vodka, increase MB7

After the cyano has gone away restart the vodka from the initial dose.

Concerning the levels of MB7/Vodka dosing: I prefer to feed my tank more, rather then reducing the dosages of vodka when my corals get too light. Through trial and error I found that increasing feedings have promoted increase growth and polyp extension, this is why I prefer to keep dosages level and feed more.

In time, you will learn what to look out for and the your tank will surely benefit.

 

[SunnyX]

I just spoke with the lone sales rep (Kevin). He said that the MB7 has a one year shelf lifte. He also mentioned that this is quickly becoming the most popular Brightwell product and it's only a little over 8 months old.

I am having a hard time find MB7 in my area. Its getting crazy.....

I'm not SunnyX but have had a similar experience. The white stuff is most likely bacteria growth of some type. My corals were not stressed nor did I notice a slowdown in growth.

The largest danger with overdosing is where the carbon source causes the O2 in the tank to become depleted causing fish to really stress and corals can follow closely behind.

My .02 cents FWIW

+1

sonny or anyone,

started dosing mb7 but dont really have a good idea on a starting point..My tank is a 220 with a 75 gallon sump..My nitrates are 0 and phosphate around .25..I do have a pretty good amount of cyano,I started dosing 2 days ago at 40ml but is this to little or should i cut back..Im not dosing vodka at this time...thank you

Hello,

I would continue with the MB7 and NOT start up vodka until the cyano has gone away. Continue with the high nutrient dosing for two weeks and then switch over to the normal dosing.

 

[fernandokng]

Sunny, I may have missed this, but what is your feeding schedule like, and what do you feed?

Thanks.

 

[SunnyX]

Been a while since I checked in on this thread. Incredible stuff. The balance of color is awe inspiring.

Thanks!

Hey Everyone,

I'm wanting to go with this bacteria driven system for my newly set up 180. Right now the tank is mostly LPS and Softies. Once I get my controller and dosing pumps dialed in I will be moving more towards all SPS.

I've been dosing MB7 in my tank for the past 14 Days, 7 Capfuls per day. I should be ready to start with the vodka now. Do you all just follow the Reef Central article for the vodka dosing? Also, how much MB7 should I be adding now that my 2 week "build up" phase is complete?

As far as amino acids and iodine go:

Should I not bother with these until I see reduced color in my corals?


It's easy to tell your method is REALLY catching on Sonny. You can't find MicroBacter7 anywhere lol, almost everyone is back-ordered.


Here's a full tank shot:

Looks like you are off to a great start! :thumbsup:

Follow the vodka dosing article concerning the dosages and application. I would wait before starting AA, you can start Lugols now. After the two week build up period of MB7 I would go with about 1 drop daily per 25gl.

 

[Timoweb]

Sunny do you dose any iron supplements in this tank?

 

[SunnyX]

I've been using MB7 for several weeks now and so far so good. I'm not dosing any vodka at all. I have a couple spots of HA, but I've been siphoning it out during water changes, and what I take out does not seem to be growing back. About 2 weeks ago, I started to dose 1 drop of Kent's Lugol's. Maybe it's me, but ever since I started dosing the Lugol's, the clarity of the water has really improved. Could it be the Lugol's, or is it just the MB7?

Hard to say if it is the MB7 or Lugols. I have dosing Lugols for many years and found that it does a great job bringing out my blue's.

Sonny, I'm in need of replacing my bulbs again and I'm wanting more of a blue tint. At the moment I'm running 4 blue+ and 2 aquablue specials. Also in doing this will my corals suffer? Anyway this is what I'm thinking of going with 4 blue+, 1 aquablue special and 1 fiji purple.
This bulb setup is for mainly sps, lps and clams
your thoughts

I have a Fiji Purple on the way, it should be here this week. I will be replacing one of my Aquablues with it. From what I have seen, the combo you are proposing should look good. The new lighting combo shouldn't have a negative effect on your corals.

Sonny, I have a newly set up 72g bowfront w/ a 20g sump (can't go larger due to size cabinet) You have really inspired me to try and achieve a bacteria powered tank. my tank is drilled w/ 2 center overflows and 2 end returns w/ splitter allowing me to have 2 directional arms for flow. I have a separate Mag 5 on each end for return flow, ASM 2 skimmer and a phos reactor to run my carbon(adding soon as it arrives). My sump has no baffles like yours. But I have macro bubbles in my display currently. What do you suggest I do next. My tank (water, sand & rock) was cycled in a 55g before we decided to go to the 72. I have some large hermits, few sand snails, and a mollie that made it thru the cycling. where to next?

Hello,

I would start up with MB7 and seed the tank with beneficial bacteria. After two weeks you can then start up vodka dosing following this guide: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

Let me know if you run into any trouble or need help.
Good luck! :thumbsup:

 

[SunnyX]

Hi Sonny,

About 4 weeks ago, I decided what I originally though was the brown film was probably from too much MB7 was actually red cyno, as it wasn't going away when I decreased the amount I was dosing. Actually it was getting worse. So I stopped the vodka and for the last 3 weeks I've been dosing the high nutrient level of MB7 4 capfuls a day (I have roughly 80 gals), and vacuuming as much cyno as I can. Unfortunately, it keeps coming back.

Any ideas? In my 5+ years of experience I've never had any cyno before and I really don't want to use red slime remover. Thanks for your help in advance!

Randy Holmes-Farley brought up an interesting point the other day. He doses vinegar instead of vodka as a carbon source. According to his observations, some strains of cyano feed off of vodka, while they are less likely to feed on vinegar.

Perhaps the different strains of cyano is why some systems get cyano, and others do not.

I will be testing and looking into vinegar as a possible soultion to cyano, as well as a + to the vodka dosing.

In your case, if cyano is getting to the point it is now I would stop the dosing of MB7 as well. You could try dosing vinegar to see if it does anything to out compete the cyano. Keep in mind that vinegar will reduce your Ph.

 

[SunnyX]

Does anyone who has gotten red cyno during vodka dosing looked like this? I believe I have red cyno but it seems to develop in the am right before my first 2 lights come on. Then once the 2 out out 6 T5s comes on it really starts to spread on the sand. Then when the other 4 lights go on it slowly goes away and before the last two lights go out you can't see it any more. Left un checked the bloom gets worse each day. And when I vacuum it up it is string.
I stopped the vodka 3-4 weeks ago and have been dosing MB7 @ 4 capfuls a day (roughly 80-85 gals total)since then.

Is it brown and stringy? Like what is pictured here: http://www.rimlessreef.com/1/post/2009/04/dinoflagellates-and-the-treament-of.html ?

Hey Sunny, a while back I mentioned I like your 1st tank better, it was the tank that got me hooked on the hobby...I'll have to back peddle a bit...this new tank is amazing! ...another TOTM winner.

Thanks! Although, I do miss the old tank. One of these days I will get back into a larger tank, but not larger than 200gl. You really dont need a large tank in order to have a great display.

hey Sonny,
I have a question for you.

I am into the 5th week of vodka dosing. GHA is still an *** but I am cutting back on my mb7. Question is I've also noticed that my sandbed, the bottom layer of it has turned black. Is it normal? According to my knowledge, that is hydrogen sulphide and that's bad ain't it. I see/read that you've been gravel washing your sandbed, so likely I am sure you will come across this yourself.

Also, I have noticed that as much as my sand is ravaged with "black" stuff, I've noticed that the sandbed gets coarser despite it's actually Grade 0 coral sand and it's getting pretty hard ie. I feel like my sandbed is dying actually

So, with retrospect to my question, what's your take on my issues?

Happy Reefing,
Marc J.

Hello Marc,

A couple reefers have reported a hardening of substrate when dosing carbon/bacteria. From what I recall, they found out that it was an issue with calcium bonding with bacteria. I am not 100% on the specifics, but that is what had happened. I know in my tank that some sections of my sandbed have clumps, most likely attributed to bacterial growth. I siphon the sand once a month and it helps to keep the sand loose and clean.

I had the same black sections of sand when I started up carbon dosing. After a couple rounds of vacuuming the black areas went away. Up until now they have not come back.

Is your sandbed a DSB?

 

[SunnyX]

First off, thanks so much for all of the incredible work you've put into updating the thread. Seriously, I've spend hours reading and you've made a believer out of me! If you don't mind, I'm hoping to ask you a couple of questions before I start your dosing regiment.

I ordered all of my supplies last week, and have been weening my tank off of my old regiment.

I have an Elos 120xl and figure I have about 120 gallons of water after live rock is accounted for.

Can you recommend how much mb7 to dose for the initial 2 weeks, and then the regular maintenance dose after the two weeks? I currently have a bit of diatoms and cyno that i'm hoping will slowly go away.

I currently have an active carbon filter as well as a GFO. I plan on taking out the GFO and then will continue the Carbon 24/7. Sound good?

AS far as the brightwells lugols and seachem stronium goes, how much should i begin dosing, and when should i start? Any suggestions?

It sounds like with the AA's i should hold off a good while and then do it once i notice the corals getting too light. How many drops would you recommend adding?

Thanks again so much! Seriously, you've been a massive influence and a great resource for so many of us.

Hope you're well!

zach

Thank you.

I would follow these recommendations concerning the dosages of MB7:

Medium to High Nutrient Systems or to seed Biological Filtration in new aquaria:
To effectively decrease the concentration of available nutrients and waste material in all marine and freshwater aquaria, add 5 ml (1 capful) per 25 US gallons or 4 drops per gallon of aquarium water daily for the first 2 weeks of use; the impact that MicroBacter7 has on an aquarium is most evident within this period.
Turn protein skimming and UV-sterilization off for a period of 4 hours following addition to aquaria. A noticeable difference in water clarity is typically apparent within 30-minutes of dosing.
Follow same instructions for new aquarium start-up. Thereafter, switch to low-nutrient dosage (below).

Stable, Low-nutrient Systems:
To maintain a low concentration of available nutrients in all marine and freshwater aquaria, 5 ml (1 capful) per 50 US gallons or 2 drops per gallon of aquarium water no more than once each week; alternately, add 1 drop per 50 US gallons daily or 1 drop per 25 US gallons every other day.
Turn protein skimming and UV-sterilization off for a period of 4 hours following addition to aquaria.
Dosage may be adjusted according to perceived benefit to aquarium, however it is recommended that the dosage not exceed 1 drop per 10 US gallons per day.
With time, hobbyists may determine that decreasing the dosage and/or dosing frequency by up to 50% sufficiently maintains a low-nutrient environment. During changes in biological filtration or when increasing the aquarium bioload, dose 1 drop per 25 US gallons daily for one week, then resume low-nutrient dosage.

Running carbon 24/7 is fine, I would slowly ween the system off of GFO. You will want to get the cyano under control BEFORE starting up vodka.

You can start up with the Lugols anytime you would like, although it would be best to wait on the Strontium until you have a decent stock of corals to consume it.

I use Kent's Lugols, 1 drop per 25gl weekly. I dose one teaspoon of Seachem strontiam daily.

Here is my complete and up to date dosing list:

After water displacement I figure the entire system volume is 140-150gl total.

Daily
CA: 110ML
ALK: 110ML
Strontium: 1 Teaspoon
Lugols: 1 drop
MB7: 14 drops
Vodka(80 proof): 2ml

Weekly
MG: 110ML
AA's: 6 drops(twice a week)

Monthly
30gl Water change Reef Crystals
Carbon replaced (3-4 cups in a mesh bag)