Sorry, another concern about S. Gigantea

Thank you GSM and Gary. I haven't added anything.

The small one has not moved since the last post. I turned up the flow to about 70% of max on the vortech. However, the other one, which has been kind of flat since I received it tucked itself into a crevice of a rock. I don't think that one will live. It looks kind of flacid?

The one pictured above has spread out, then shrink, and then spread out again. It has stayed there, but I still don't think it is 100% happy.

Water tested again with no detectable nitrites, nitrates, or ammonia. pH and alk all are in the higher range. (8.3-8.4 pH)

A 10 gallon water change was done, and I plan on doing another water change, unless someone thinks that would not help.
 
what is the alkalinity (specifically)?
How do you maintain alk? (What do you dose to maintain alk.)

Make sure the flaccid anemone still receives water flow. Monitor your anemones closely at this point and don't make any rapid changes in water conditions.
You want a constant 80F and S.G. of 1.025 while maintaining good water flow. If one of the anemones starts to deteriorate remove it ASAP.

Unless one of your anemones takes a turn for the worse and starts to disintigrate I don't think water changes are helping them at this point in time.
 
your doing too many water changes let that water stabilize :)

And make sure that your alk is right verify the test kit with another brand.
 
Thanks for your advice Gary.
Also for your input GSM.

It's been a mix of freshly aged water and seasoned water from the display.

The alk specifically is 9.6 dKH. The temp is 81F and it looks to be 1.026.

I do not dose consistently. If I do dose, I use B-Ionic part A and Part B.

Although that one has stayed in one spot, it does not seem completely happy because only a portion of the foot is attached.

When the lights go off, I notice that it curls up and kind of lets go.
But still stays in it's spot.

I see the tentacles kind of waving and moving by themselves. This is a good sign correct? The other one, that is flacid....seems to not move the tentacles at all. This particular one never folded up like the smaller one. It was always kind of flat, with only the very edges folding. This is a bad sign, correct?

The flat one came in dirty water, a little smelly. Should that have been the first sign something is not quite right?

Thanks for following up with me. I'm thinking all I can do at this point is to leave them alone?
 
Yes, I had two brands of test kits. However, one of the brands expired and I didn't know. The ones that are still good are Sailifert kits.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12115306#post12115306 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sugartooth
Thanks for your advice Gary.
Also for your input GSM.

It's been a mix of freshly aged water and seasoned water from the display.

The alk specifically is 9.6 dKH. The temp is 81F and it looks to be 1.026.

I do not dose consistently. If I do dose, I use B-Ionic part A and Part B.

Although that one has stayed in one spot, it does not seem completely happy because only a portion of the foot is attached.

When the lights go off, I notice that it curls up and kind of lets go.
But still stays in it's spot.

I see the tentacles kind of waving and moving by themselves. This is a good sign correct? The other one, that is flacid....seems to not move the tentacles at all. This particular one never folded up like the smaller one. It was always kind of flat, with only the very edges folding. This is a bad sign, correct?

The flat one came in dirty water, a little smelly. Should that have been the first sign something is not quite right?

Thanks for following up with me. I'm thinking all I can do at this point is to leave them alone?
Click to expand...
smelly dirty water in a gigantea shipping bag is a bad sign-
the one anemone might already be a goner :(

Your alk, temp and S.G. sound good.
I've noticed that many anemones have a bad reaction to the alk part of liquid two part supplements. Since anemones don't consume calcium and alk I would recommend that you don't dose any B-ionic in their aquarium while their acclimating.
 
You are right Gary, looks like the flat one is melting. :(

Here is the latest picture of the smaller one, it moved a few inches, but looks to have found a good spot?

This is with flash only, all the lights are out.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/nullcable/2342647914/" title="sml gigantea 3.17.08 by nullcable, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2102/2342647914_6741d22641_o.jpg" width="800" height="590" alt="sml gigantea 3.17.08" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/nullcable/2342647920/" title="sml gigantea 3.17.08 night by nullcable, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2322/2342647920_105429ca7d_o.jpg" width="800" height="473" alt="sml gigantea 3.17.08 night" /></a>
 
I'll dispense with platitudes and tell you both of your anems will not make it. No folds or firm body compostition, gaping mouth etc. Gigantae should not be your first addition no matter your skill level or equipment.

I truly wish you the best of luck though.
 
Thanks GSM. I hope so too.

Kris4647: That's what I wanted to find out, the behavior and what to look for, as well as tips and tricks that reading won't and only experience can tell me.

So far, I have input from Gary about things I should watch out for...

Can you elaborate more on why the anemone should not be the first addition?

As I understood, it should be the first addition, because they move around. Once they find their spot, then you should build around it. What are you saying should be the first addition?

Thanks for your well wishes, I surely will do the absolute best I can. I don't take advice lightly here.
 
Here is a picture of what it looks like this morning, about 1/2 hour after lights on. The foot changes shape, but has not completely anchored. What does it take for it to anchor?

Please provide your assessments. Thanks again for the help.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/nullcable/2342559405/" title="sml gigantea 3.18.08 by nullcable, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2063/2342559405_78629a4335_o.jpg" width="800" height="532" alt="sml gigantea 3.18.08" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/nullcable/2342559479/" title="smll gigantea 3.18.08 by nullcable, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2389/2342559479_d94e9061e3_o.jpg" width="800" height="532" alt="smll gigantea 3.18.08" /></a>
 
The folds of the body in general are a great indicator of health. Firm and holding its shape when handled. Stickyness is also a good sign. Color is also important as it indicates a healthy zoo population, you did well there. Outside of tubes flourescent anemones aren't ideal as it very often indicates bleaching

It's not a great place to start simply because it's the most difficult of all the hosts to mantain. Any swings in water quality lessen your chances of succes even further. In a tank that isnt mature I would imagine you would experience at least some swings. As for moving, carpets do very little moving.

I would say perhaps 10-15% of landed Gigantaes survive long term. There is conjecture of the causes but nothiing solid other than hobbyist input and even that varies.

I wish the best for you, and hope my post wasn't too harsh. I really love that tank setup btw.
 
I disagree, I think yours look way better than mine did at first. As with all Gigantia I think the odds of them dieing are high, but what do you have to loose? If there is nothing in the tank any way, well is seem you stand to loose nothing? I will say I think you could have been safer by letting the tank mature a little more, but heck we all rush sometimes.
Please let us know who it works out.
Cope
 
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. No, I didn't think your post was harsh. I just wanted more information and content to steer me in the correct direction. Even if you didn't have positive things to say, I need to hear it and listen if it is going to help me.

Your assessment is exactly what I was looking for...for example, I kind of understood that a very light colored or fluorescent colored anemone was not good. But I didn't fully understand how this process happens, and where mine stands on that scale. This helps me because I can now better evaluate the health of my anemone going forward. Since I have no actual experience, any input no matter how obvious, helps me.

I am encouraged to hear that the color is good. I have to focus on the other changes that may be happening with this guy, correct?

As for the maturity of the tank. Yes, I agree with everyone. I would also feel most comfortable to allow the tank to be running for a longer period of time prior to putting anything in there. I felt with the contents coming from a mature system, I would have a mini cycle that could be easily dealt with and over by the time anything was put in there. Thus far, I have no detectable ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.

I can acknowledge that I got very excited when the opportunity to purchase a gigantea was in front of me. I decided on a calculated risk here. Here is where I knew that on paper, monitoring water quality, light, and flow would end in success. I believe I had those elements in my favor.
So now, it's the 'stuff' that only people with firsthand experience would be able to provide.

For instance, knowing when to leave them alone, or knowing when to dial up or down the flow, what are the important elements to look for, etc. As an example.......because of previous posts, I have recognized that the flaccid anemone will not get better, and have pulled it from the tank. The water seemed slightly cloudy, like there were microbubbles in it. I pulled the nem out, it had no tone or structure to it and I realized just as kris noted that it's a sign of poor health. So here, I would have compromised the small anemone's health by hoping this one would get better, is that right?

I say thank you for providing all comments and suggestions. I will continue with updates and welcome your input based on the pictures, etc. I sincerely hope that I can be successful here.
 
I'm not sure that I have a lot to share that's profoundly different than what's already been said, but I'll share what I can.

The reason it's generally regarded as risky to try an anemone such as gigantea in a newly setup tank is twofold. 1) As stated, this species has a horrendous survival rate after collection. 10% to 15% surviving is probably accurate (it may even be optimistic). The reasons for this are for the most part, unknown. They just die, and in fact they may even look healthy and thriving right up to the end, and have a sudden and quick decline. 2) The variables at play in a new tank are numerous. It simply hasn't had the history of being an environment of stability. It doesn't mean guaranteed failure but basically it does mean you're not stacking the odds in your favour. Bacterial populations and algae blooms and just the whole general cycle of proliferation -> reaction -> settling out to equilibrium is happening in an almost iterative manner for several months, and to have this going on at the same time as trying to watch an anemone transition into captive husbandry is just a wild rollercoaster ride over which we have very little control.

As to why this species fares poorly initially is really anyone's guess. Whatever the case, by the time they are in our tanks, they tend to come to us in a compromised state. It's simply a question of the means by which they come to us, is hardly ideal. Collection, transit, wholesale, retail, etc. exposes them to a broad spectrum of stressors.

It is entirely possible that that the majority of individuals are succumbing to bacterial infections. Sprung and Delbeek in TRA (I forget which volume) suggest that antibiotic treatments may help the survival rate but realistically with the question of access to the appropriate antibiotics, the ethics of their use, and the question of safe disposal really illustrates that this option is beyond the bulk majority of casual hobbyists. If we happened to work for a public aquarium, zoo, or were vetrinarians, or academic researchers there may be more options available. However speaking for those of us that fit into the category of "none of the above" what's left for us is "hope like heck."

Essentially they come to us compromised... and if we're lucky, they're not so far gone by the time we get them and they recover. If we're not particularly lucky, then it's the same old story. :( I will go on record and state that everyone who has this species long-term is "lucky." Ie., nobody can claim a recipe for success other than trying the right things and hoping for the best. You can stack the odds in your favour if you acquire a specimen that has already been in captivity for some time.

So, when it comes to things like "how do these look?" and "what are things I should watch for", these actually are not easy questions to answer.

Do they look OK? Well, not really, they look stressed to me. But don't take that personally, they look as I would expect them to be since they are new acquisitions.

What are things to watch for? I don't really know how to answer. At least in terms of "what can do I if I see {insert thing here}". Eventually, the outcome will be one of two things, they will recover, or they will succumb. Unfortunately at this point there is very little we can do to influence the outcome, all we can do is observe and hope. Things that do come to mind:

- Ensure that O2 saturation is good via adequate water movement,
- ensure that any slime buildup can be washed away
- resist the urge to feed, food that decomposes faster than it can be digested opens the door for bacterial infections. As they get acclimitized to captivity their metabolism seems to increase and thus the amount fed can be ramped up.

Things to watch for that indicate things are not going well:
- open gaping mouth, or inverted
- not attaching, or attaching and detaching
- inflating, deflating, inflating, deflating
- slime or disintegration

Correspondingly, things that indicate things may be going OK:
- tight closed mouth, or close to it (like a belly button)
- good attachment to substrate
- catching food on its own

The last pictures posted don't look too bad. At this point though, ie., only a couple days in, you're still sort of in that stressful period. To me, there are these sort of milestones:
- 1 week
- 2 weeks
- 1 month
- several months

By the time you reach several months, you'll all of a sudden realize "Oh hey! It's been a few months!" and by that point, the odds are the carpet is an undemanding and hardy specimen. It's just the question of getting there.

I wish you the best of luck. Your tank setup looks great, I think a carpet or two will look very nice in there.
 
Last edited:
You posted while I was typing in my novella of a long reply. A couple comments I want to respond to:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12120630#post12120630 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sugartooth

For instance, knowing when to leave them alone, or knowing when to dial up or down the flow, what are the important elements to look for, etc.
Click to expand...
In my experience, surging flows and washes of flow from different directions are beneficial.

I'll state the obvious in that pointing a powerhead directly *at* the anemone is a big no-no as it will injure the anemone. However having a powerhead that has its flow directed above or nearby the anemone might not be a bad idea. The suction that a powerhead creates is an ideal type of flow, and if the powerheads can be on a wavemaker it can create that sort of surging effect that they are used to in their wild habitat.


As an example.......because of previous posts, I have recognized that the flaccid anemone will not get better, and have pulled it from the tank. The water seemed slightly cloudy, like there were microbubbles in it. I pulled the nem out, it had no tone or structure to it and I realized just as kris noted that it's a sign of poor health. So here, I would have compromised the small anemone's health by hoping this one would get better, is that right?
Click to expand...

I think it sounds like that one was probably already done. Sorry to hear it, but you probably did the right thing by pulling it. It likely would have fouled the water thus creating increased risk to the other.
 
A most Excellent post^^^
The name of this site should be "Things your LFS doesn't know and wouldn't tell you even if they did."
 
Great post from an experienced Gigantae owner. Altho I feel cheated you didn't post any pictures your two beauties Delphinus!

Rod uses a dump bucket surge arrangement I think for his purple.
 
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