Spring frag swap! 05/18/13 @ the odeum
- Thread starter Superman92088
- Start date
onepoorreefer
Member
I bought it up at the last meeting to the committee members in charge of the frag swap about renting part of the space to the freshwater club but it fell on deaf ears.
Last edited:
Edward Smith
Active member
Wow? I'm blown away.
Believe me, I'm not missing the point "Membership = free entry, blah blah blah."
But you got to be kidding me? I'll spend more money this week on:
Gas to the LFS
Tipping my server
My 8 y/o's allowance
The gas in my snowblower
etc.....
Here's the thing, being a volunteer for organizations and trying to do a good thing generally SUCKS! What's the old saying "No good deed goes unpunished."
You're never appreciated. All you every hear from people is cry, cry, cry.... but when it comes time to find a helping hand..........silence. The CMAS board isn't compensated for this. All of our time is a limited resource and these guys are spending alot of theirs to support a club. The club can barley get enough volunteers to fill the open leadership positions?! But then their going to be criticized when the do step up?
I can't believe the word "greed" was used. Are you kidding me, they don't keep the money!!!!!! Their not paid! What, they might buy themselves a pizza at the end of an event? Ooooohhhhhhh! Don't order any extra toppings guys, it might be considered a mis-appropriation of funds.
Ok, sorry for being so dramatic, but you know what, I could understand the tone in the previous posts if you were dependent on a paper route for income, but really? How much is the time worth for the guy/gal that:
Arranges everything with the crabby vendors
Flips burgers and dogs on the grill outside
Orders the pizza and sets it up.
Makes the arrangements with the facility
Manages the funds.
Stores and hauls the necessary equipment to the site.
Is the first to get there and the last to leave.
Has to deal with discontented guests and vendors
Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc........
Wow, and all I have to do is show up and flip them $5 or $10? Sounds like a deal.
It is exactly the content in this thread why I don't volunteer for organizing benevolent activities, it's never appreciated. All you ever hear is "What's in it for me."
Believe me, I'm not missing the point "Membership = free entry, blah blah blah."
But you got to be kidding me? I'll spend more money this week on:
Gas to the LFS
Tipping my server
My 8 y/o's allowance
The gas in my snowblower
etc.....
Here's the thing, being a volunteer for organizations and trying to do a good thing generally SUCKS! What's the old saying "No good deed goes unpunished."
You're never appreciated. All you every hear from people is cry, cry, cry.... but when it comes time to find a helping hand..........silence. The CMAS board isn't compensated for this. All of our time is a limited resource and these guys are spending alot of theirs to support a club. The club can barley get enough volunteers to fill the open leadership positions?! But then their going to be criticized when the do step up?
I can't believe the word "greed" was used. Are you kidding me, they don't keep the money!!!!!! Their not paid! What, they might buy themselves a pizza at the end of an event? Ooooohhhhhhh! Don't order any extra toppings guys, it might be considered a mis-appropriation of funds.
Ok, sorry for being so dramatic, but you know what, I could understand the tone in the previous posts if you were dependent on a paper route for income, but really? How much is the time worth for the guy/gal that:
Arranges everything with the crabby vendors
Flips burgers and dogs on the grill outside
Orders the pizza and sets it up.
Makes the arrangements with the facility
Manages the funds.
Stores and hauls the necessary equipment to the site.
Is the first to get there and the last to leave.
Has to deal with discontented guests and vendors
Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc........
Wow, and all I have to do is show up and flip them $5 or $10? Sounds like a deal.
It is exactly the content in this thread why I don't volunteer for organizing benevolent activities, it's never appreciated. All you ever hear is "What's in it for me."
Tank2379
Active member
Spring frag swap! 05/18/13 @ the odeum
You said all this and yet folks will still continue to cry, every event someone isn't happy about something, then you get the folks that come on to see this post and finally want to voice an opinion on how things should be ran but want the nerve to address all the faults the club has instead of trying to make it better. Some folks just aren't happy, I just don't get it... If you are that unhappy stop supporting a club that you are just going to continue to make them look bad.. Then again it's not my life I'm a reefer that just likes to reef...
You said all this and yet folks will still continue to cry, every event someone isn't happy about something, then you get the folks that come on to see this post and finally want to voice an opinion on how things should be ran but want the nerve to address all the faults the club has instead of trying to make it better. Some folks just aren't happy, I just don't get it... If you are that unhappy stop supporting a club that you are just going to continue to make them look bad.. Then again it's not my life I'm a reefer that just likes to reef...
yogoshio
New member
I agree, the idea of greed is awful far fetched. Everyone wanted a bigger venue, and that costs more money.
However, at the same time, paying members feel, and rightfully so, that unless CMAS starts putting on more than 2 events a year, then the membership entry should be less than 2 event costs for non members. This is not an egregious offense, its wanting to be appreciated for being paying members of the organization. Re-occurring income is always better than random cash injections for running any club or organization, and that should be appreciated on both sides.
I totally understand the higher costs for a larger venue, but the way this was presented mixed with the not so distant past of complete secrecy of the board makes for an unhappy membership group. You're right, $5 is nothing, and there was never a promise for free entry to every frag swap, just in the past. But, take away part of the incentive of being a member, and it will rub them the wrong way. And, blasting those for voicing their opinions, however wrong they might be, doesn't make for a good chance of new members either.
Frankly, the way CMAS has handled itself has been incredibly poor. The lack of transparency mixed with the back door dealings and deletion of comments and more has created a big veil that will take a long time to lift. And for all the CMAS members who say, join, and have your opinion heard: why would I join a club that has historically ignored its members ideas?
Like I said, I see the new direction the change of board has made, but even how the new board was created was shady. They agree to change the rules, then decide not to when certain members felt threatened. Sounds more like a children's club in a treehouse than an organization designed to maximize benefits for its members.
However, at the same time, paying members feel, and rightfully so, that unless CMAS starts putting on more than 2 events a year, then the membership entry should be less than 2 event costs for non members. This is not an egregious offense, its wanting to be appreciated for being paying members of the organization. Re-occurring income is always better than random cash injections for running any club or organization, and that should be appreciated on both sides.
I totally understand the higher costs for a larger venue, but the way this was presented mixed with the not so distant past of complete secrecy of the board makes for an unhappy membership group. You're right, $5 is nothing, and there was never a promise for free entry to every frag swap, just in the past. But, take away part of the incentive of being a member, and it will rub them the wrong way. And, blasting those for voicing their opinions, however wrong they might be, doesn't make for a good chance of new members either.
Frankly, the way CMAS has handled itself has been incredibly poor. The lack of transparency mixed with the back door dealings and deletion of comments and more has created a big veil that will take a long time to lift. And for all the CMAS members who say, join, and have your opinion heard: why would I join a club that has historically ignored its members ideas?
Like I said, I see the new direction the change of board has made, but even how the new board was created was shady. They agree to change the rules, then decide not to when certain members felt threatened. Sounds more like a children's club in a treehouse than an organization designed to maximize benefits for its members.
Amen. Nobody has still answered for these issues, and I doubt anyone will.
I will definitely not be renewing my membership when it expires in the next couple months. It has nothing to do with the 5$ (although how it works out is ridiculous).
Kmiec123
Actual CMAS Member
NOt sure what Questions where not answered....The Club has more than two events a year that are free to get in. This group on the board started Jan 1, 2013. Not sure what else you expect from the new team, but feel free to voice them and I will do my best to make them happen. How what the board selection Shady? The by-laws needed to be followed, not changed a month before the elections, which could not happen legally anyway. That would have made the club look like it was a "Tree-house Club". If more people stepped up there would have been more nominees. Now is the time to step up and make any of the changes to by-laws or any other club structure the members want to see. I was just about begged to take the President position and was very clear from my stance, that my time is limited and I would not be, and this club would no longer be run by a two-three people. Either the members step up to help out and make the club what they want through the committee process, or the club dissolves and 400-600 people can forget reaping the benefits of the cool swaps this club has and will organize.
I'm a pretty smart guy at time, but I'm sorry, I cannot give explanation for the way the club was run in the past, I can only do my best to give the members what they want to see from now on. I hope to do that and I hope some people stand up to make it happen.
Thanks Ed for the support....Not that post counts matter, but it is funny how most of the support comes form the 2600+ post club. I guess we have been around awhile and have a little thicker skin. 
O ya, Ed. love the avatar...great trilogy of documentary!
I'm a pretty smart guy at time, but I'm sorry, I cannot give explanation for the way the club was run in the past, I can only do my best to give the members what they want to see from now on. I hope to do that and I hope some people stand up to make it happen.
Thanks Ed for the support....Not that post counts matter, but it is funny how most of the support comes form the 2600+ post club.
I guess we have been around awhile and have a little thicker skin. O ya, Ed. love the avatar...great trilogy of documentary!
BigKev23
Member
Not that post counts matter, but it is funny how most of the support comes form the 2600+ post club.
I don't have 2600+ posts on here, but I've been around just as long as you guys.
Personally, I don't care how the club was run in the past and I am glad to see that there are people committed to making changes. If I felt that there was a benefit to be had by me going to the meetings, I probably would make an attempt to attend once in a while. Maybe with the new board in place, the meetings will become more interesting and attract people who don't usually come.
In response to some of your "supporters" comments, I don't think anyone is saying that $5 is a lot of money or that they cannot afford it. Most people don't join CMAS for anything more than getting into the swaps for free, which has always been a given as far back as I have been around. So to those people(including myself), the benefit of being a CMAS member is useless now because it has become cheaper to not be part of the club. I agree that you guys have tried to offset that cost with the free $5 worth of raffle tickets. But the way the raffles have been run in the past has left a horrible taste that will take a while to get out. So this is not looked at as a benefit in most people's eyes
Some of these posters are correct.... if people are unhappy, then stop supporting the club. It seems like that is going to be the course of a number of people who do not feel it is worth it. Carl has agreed to take our ideas on the extra cost to the committee for a vote. I think a step back from the $5 extra cost vs free $5 in raffle tix would go a long way with showing people that the club has changed and would hopefully keep some people from leaving. After this swap, it should definitely be posted that CMAS membership does not guarantee free entry to the swaps like in the past.
Kmiec123
Actual CMAS Member
Something I posted on another site.
Sorry for the delay in responce. I did post on RC in responce last night, and don't feel I need to repeate those comments here too.
I will give some other info here....Some of my thought process for the $5 admission was to simplify the entry at the beginning of the swap. Let's face it, past swaps the raffle and the entry to the event has been a fiasco due to lack of a little pre-planning. That is part of what this is about, to expedite the chaos at the beginning and not have our participants standing in line for 30 min...they should spend that time spending money at our vendors and buying raffle tickets.
Another reason for the decrease in cost to non-members was a trial thing. There is to be 2500-3000 other people at the venue for other events. Part of the club's mission statement, that I agree with, is to promote the hobby, that is the purpose for the minimal fee for all, and maybe they will be some raffle tickets and make up the difference and get in the hobby if they win a tank, then join the club to learn how to keep the tank alive. I guess we will see if it works out, but the reasoning behind it is positive, not greedy.
This is this boards first event...remember this board started Jan 1, 2013. There is not involvement or help from the past board members that planned past events, so we are learning as we go, cut us a little slack. You will see detailed financials at minimum quarterly, and/or after large events. I could not agree more on the issue of transparency and am surprise I am still a member from lack of it in the past, that is not usually how I roll.
I realize, due to some past issues with the raffle, that the refund to members in raffle tickets don't seem to be much of anything. But, I assure you, not one single decision about how the raffle is to be run has been made, but I want major changes to make it more appealing to everyone. Suggestions welcome, as always. Ideas thrown around.... Separate premium item with entry ticket only-one chance to win for all!....One big Drum for all tickets, not picking to put all your eggs in one basket for premium items-$700 in tickets will more likely get your a whole bunch of purple up and Rod's food! not that that's a bad thing on the Rod's food. This is where your participation will be appreciated to not have a fiasco and make the raffle more manageable.
I am speaking my opinion he and always. I will and would never submit a "Voice from the Board" unless I have brought it to their attention and got a vote on that issue. IMO nobody should be speaking on behalf of the CMAS Board without consulting the whole board. I am not an advocate of censoring in any way...other than personal attacks, slander, liable, etc. I'll take all input, and not take anything personally, and bring it for a group vote....the vote wins and I will back up that decision. This is the best practice I have found that works on NFP organization...and not to brag, but I am involve in quite a few....Ask and I'll submit the list.
So bring on the constructive comments. I can not check all the forums, so your voice is more likely to be heard directly on the CMAS site, so I encourage you to comment their so I don;t need to check multiple forums, as I am involved in a lot of things. "Why take the Job if I don't have Time?" I was just a bout begged too....and my commitment is to the Clubs structure of forming active committee's and allowing them to do their jobs. The members need to run this club as it is the members club. That being said, it the sole purpose for joining is to get in free and not be and active member, that is fine. That is another discussion that is happening about definitions of tiers of membership both commercial and regular. Once that is finalized we will continue to express them in amended by-laws, etc. and YES, we will need help with this.
Enough for now.
I said in the other thread, thy and be a part of the solution, not the problem.
Carl Kmiec
Your New CMAS President
Sorry for the delay in responce. I did post on RC in responce last night, and don't feel I need to repeate those comments here too.
I will give some other info here....Some of my thought process for the $5 admission was to simplify the entry at the beginning of the swap. Let's face it, past swaps the raffle and the entry to the event has been a fiasco due to lack of a little pre-planning. That is part of what this is about, to expedite the chaos at the beginning and not have our participants standing in line for 30 min...they should spend that time spending money at our vendors and buying raffle tickets.
Another reason for the decrease in cost to non-members was a trial thing. There is to be 2500-3000 other people at the venue for other events. Part of the club's mission statement, that I agree with, is to promote the hobby, that is the purpose for the minimal fee for all, and maybe they will be some raffle tickets and make up the difference and get in the hobby if they win a tank, then join the club to learn how to keep the tank alive. I guess we will see if it works out, but the reasoning behind it is positive, not greedy.
This is this boards first event...remember this board started Jan 1, 2013. There is not involvement or help from the past board members that planned past events, so we are learning as we go, cut us a little slack. You will see detailed financials at minimum quarterly, and/or after large events. I could not agree more on the issue of transparency and am surprise I am still a member from lack of it in the past, that is not usually how I roll.
I realize, due to some past issues with the raffle, that the refund to members in raffle tickets don't seem to be much of anything. But, I assure you, not one single decision about how the raffle is to be run has been made, but I want major changes to make it more appealing to everyone. Suggestions welcome, as always. Ideas thrown around.... Separate premium item with entry ticket only-one chance to win for all!....One big Drum for all tickets, not picking to put all your eggs in one basket for premium items-$700 in tickets will more likely get your a whole bunch of purple up and Rod's food! not that that's a bad thing on the Rod's food. This is where your participation will be appreciated to not have a fiasco and make the raffle more manageable.
I am speaking my opinion he and always. I will and would never submit a "Voice from the Board" unless I have brought it to their attention and got a vote on that issue. IMO nobody should be speaking on behalf of the CMAS Board without consulting the whole board. I am not an advocate of censoring in any way...other than personal attacks, slander, liable, etc. I'll take all input, and not take anything personally, and bring it for a group vote....the vote wins and I will back up that decision. This is the best practice I have found that works on NFP organization...and not to brag, but I am involve in quite a few....Ask and I'll submit the list.
So bring on the constructive comments. I can not check all the forums, so your voice is more likely to be heard directly on the CMAS site, so I encourage you to comment their so I don;t need to check multiple forums, as I am involved in a lot of things. "Why take the Job if I don't have Time?" I was just a bout begged too....and my commitment is to the Clubs structure of forming active committee's and allowing them to do their jobs. The members need to run this club as it is the members club. That being said, it the sole purpose for joining is to get in free and not be and active member, that is fine. That is another discussion that is happening about definitions of tiers of membership both commercial and regular. Once that is finalized we will continue to express them in amended by-laws, etc. and YES, we will need help with this.
Enough for now.
I said in the other thread, thy and be a part of the solution, not the problem.
Carl Kmiec
Your New CMAS President
So, I'm new to the hobby and came across this thread with interest in learning more about the frag swap. Instead of learning about the swap I feel like I just stepped into a room of Crabby Old Grannies after reading 5 posts.
My curiosity is sparked. For those of you unhappy and unsupportive of the CMAS, I am interested to know what ways, attempts or contributions you have made to try and improve the CMAS?
If you're voicetress and not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem......
My curiosity is sparked. For those of you unhappy and unsupportive of the CMAS, I am interested to know what ways, attempts or contributions you have made to try and improve the CMAS?
If you're voicetress and not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem......
5 dollars?
5 dollars?
What is so wrong with 5 dollars? I have been watching this thread for a couple of days shaking my head and thinking, shame on you that are complaning about 5 dollars.
Just a week or so ago i was wondering if CMAS was going to have another swap.
Why in the world would you turn your nose up at the swap because of 5 dollars?
Having worked with other clubs and functions I have experienced what its like to work hard to get things done like the swap and even just normalclub functions where only a few are willing to help but many are willing voice their opinion about what they feel is wrong.
The old swaps were awesome and I spent much more than I should have, there were things that could have been better. Well some times better means it may cost a little more.
If the swap has more room then I feel its worth a little more.
If the only reason you joined CMAS was to get into the swap for free and you can't anymore , then throw a temper tantrum and stay home.
I am sure that you can go to a lfs and buy your corals there but i am sure you will spend that 5 dollars plus alittle more.
To CMAS board thank you for a bigger venue, even if it will cost me a extra gallon of gas, damn there goes 4 dollars.
John
5 dollars?
What is so wrong with 5 dollars? I have been watching this thread for a couple of days shaking my head and thinking, shame on you that are complaning about 5 dollars.
Just a week or so ago i was wondering if CMAS was going to have another swap.
Why in the world would you turn your nose up at the swap because of 5 dollars?
Having worked with other clubs and functions I have experienced what its like to work hard to get things done like the swap and even just normalclub functions where only a few are willing to help but many are willing voice their opinion about what they feel is wrong.
The old swaps were awesome and I spent much more than I should have, there were things that could have been better. Well some times better means it may cost a little more.
If the swap has more room then I feel its worth a little more.
If the only reason you joined CMAS was to get into the swap for free and you can't anymore , then throw a temper tantrum and stay home.
I am sure that you can go to a lfs and buy your corals there but i am sure you will spend that 5 dollars plus alittle more.
To CMAS board thank you for a bigger venue, even if it will cost me a extra gallon of gas, damn there goes 4 dollars.
John
DopeCantWin
Active member
If you think the argument is over the $5, then I don't think you've been watching the thread. It wouldn't have mattered if it was 1c, it was the principle. I'd actually prefer to pay more for the membership and get free entry with better venues. If there was some idea we'd get people to join by looking at the prices at the swap, and winning some raffle stuff, I'd say that is very misguided.
5 dollars
5 dollars
It is all about 5 dollars, nothing more nothing less,
I want to get in free and not have to pay 5 dollars is all about 5 dollars.
They are giving you a better swap and that costs more money, so in the best interest of the club and the swap it will cost a little more.
Those of you that dont want to pay the 5 dollars, where were you at when the club needed board members? Some one who could make a decision and doing the best for the club.
Maybe next time there is an election you will run for a position, then you can make a decision and not complain about 5 dollars
John
5 dollars
It is all about 5 dollars, nothing more nothing less,
I want to get in free and not have to pay 5 dollars is all about 5 dollars.
They are giving you a better swap and that costs more money, so in the best interest of the club and the swap it will cost a little more.
Those of you that dont want to pay the 5 dollars, where were you at when the club needed board members? Some one who could make a decision and doing the best for the club.
Maybe next time there is an election you will run for a position, then you can make a decision and not complain about 5 dollars
John
skunkmere
New member
If your a cmas member, why is it so wrong to voice your opinion? I'm sure you have at some point or another talked bad about the U.S. president , congressman , ect , does that mean you have to run for one of these positions cause you voiced your opinion ? I don't think money was ever an issue here.
If your a member whats wrong with voicing your opinion, nothing there isnt anything wrong with it, but do it at a meeting, if you go to one , and do it there. Stand up for what you believe in but doing it on here is just to get attention.
As far as not liking a President, congressman or senator it is an opinion but i dont think this is a place that I should let everyone know how i feel. We all know there is enough of those kind of people that are willing to tell us what we should think.
All in all the people that are running the club are trying to do the best they can to better the club and the betterment of the hobby.
Remember that you can help them out with the next swap!
I am sure that all of the people that have a problem with the 5 dollars would not mind helping out to find a venue that is as good or better then this one and will be cheap enough to let members in for free
John
As far as not liking a President, congressman or senator it is an opinion but i dont think this is a place that I should let everyone know how i feel. We all know there is enough of those kind of people that are willing to tell us what we should think.
All in all the people that are running the club are trying to do the best they can to better the club and the betterment of the hobby.
Remember that you can help them out with the next swap!
I am sure that all of the people that have a problem with the 5 dollars would not mind helping out to find a venue that is as good or better then this one and will be cheap enough to let members in for free
John
DopeCantWin
Active member
Then you just don't understand what we're upset about.
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