SPS and Nitrates... success stories please.

[Southreef]

Hello all... I would like to hear from the people that run successful SPS tanks that have a measurable nitrate load. I have been running my 90 for over a year and have recently added a ton of SPS to the tank. They all seem to be doing pretty wonderfully but of course I always wonder if they could be doing better.

Here's a quick run down of the stats:

Total water volume approximately 100 gallons
SWC 180 Skimmer
Refugium with chaeto/DSB
Approx 120 lbs of live rock
15W UV
6 T5 54 watt Geismann bulbs
2 mp40s at approximately 60% on anti-sync Nutrient transport mode

Water parameters:
Reef Crystals mix which gives me

Salinity: 1.024
PH: 8.0
Mg: 1290ppm
Ca: 450ppm
dKH: 9.6
NO3: 2.5ppm (sailfert)
PO4: Not detectable but I know I have a small issue because there is a cyano growth in the sump... only in the sump though

I dose with Kalkwasser via auto top off and perform 20 gallon water changes weekly. The reason I have committed to such a large weekly water change regime is the fact that I find it easier than dosing and I have a relatively heavy fish load.

The reason for all this recent soul searching on whether or not I should seek the holy grail of ZERO no3 and a true ZERO in PO4 is all the reading I've been doing about vodka/carbon dosing. I'm happy with the way my display looks and the growth of the corals but I want long term success and some flexibility in missing a water change here and there without huge issues of spiking parameters. What I'm hoping you all will say is that you have run very successful tanks with nitrates in the sub 5PPM range and that I shouldn't change a thing!

 

[BuckeyeTodd]

WWC old 300 gal show tank had nitrates around 25...Mine are 10-25 and always has been.

 

[RynosReef]

If you've ever seen Mark Poletti's tank here on reef central you'll see an absolutely beautiful sps tank can be run with nitrates. I believe from what I've read that he keeps his nitrates below 10ppm. I can not even begin to compare my tank with his, but I keep my nitrates under 10 as well and shoot for 2.5 to 5. Remember that many times ULNS add coral food to achieve color. Not always though. There is definitely more than one way to skin a cat though. Many many people on RC have beautiful ULNS as well. I think that either way will do, it's just a matter of which one appeals to you. Example: how much free time do you have to start carbon dosing and maintaining it year in year out day to day? For me, keeping a ULNS is tempting, if for no other reason than to try something new and see what happens. But I also like going on vacation every few months and I don't have an adequate dosing system set up just yet. Fish poo will have to do for now.

 

[Southreef]

That's an excellent point about the true level of involvement carbon dosing really takes to be successful. I have been asking around locally to see if anyone uses a doser and can't get a straight answer. I'll look up Mark's tank and use that as an inspiration. Like I mentioned previously I find it hard to not fix what "aint broken" so to speak. Thanks for the tips and I'll look up his tank!

 

[psusocr]

my nitrates are always around 20-25 ppm or so and I think i have some good looking SPS and alot of them . I have great P.E on them as well . I skim my tank super wet and feed on the heaver side..i dose nothing , only run carbon and GFO.

I should also mention i keep my temp, cal, mag and alk VERY stable and do 60 gallon water changes every two weeks..I think this is the most important factor to keeping sticks, for me anyway..

 

[Southreef]

Alright! Now that's the stuff I like to hear

 

[reefinder]

Nitrates is not your biggest issue. the leather and crowding issue you have with the tangs schould be your first priority before adding sps

 

[allsps40]

My No3 is around 10-15ppm and all my sps are fine. I just have a bit of algae because of it. Trying to lower no3 back below 5ppm.

 

[Southreef]

Nitrates is not your biggest issue. the leather and crowding issue you have with the tangs schould be your first priority before adding sps

I understand your concerns with both of those items.

#1 The leather:

As I understand it the leather is quite capable of impeding and stunting the growth of surrounding corals by use of it's chemical warfare capabilities. To combat this I skim heavily and do large weekly water changes. I don't run carbon as a norm but have it standing by incase I notice any abnormalities in the tank. Are there any other things I should know about the leather?

#2 The Tangs:

The tangs have inhabited the tank for 12 months as of the end of January. They were acquired when they were about the size of a 50 cent piece and are now approxiamtely 3 inches long. I understand their need for large open spaces to swim and also the potential for aggression towards other fish or even between the two of them. I suppose if I were to be totally responsible I would return all the fish to the reefs around the world from which they came but unfortunately for them that will not be happening. Until the fish show signs of stress, disease or become unmanagably aggressive I will hang on to them. And not that I should really have to mention this, but I will be getting rid of them within the next six months if I don't miraculously upgrade to a 300 gallon tank

 

[Alex T.]

I think sometimes we misunderstand some of the concepts. It seems that those with ULNS tanks dose a lot of other things back into the tank that help in feeding the corals. There many people that complain about pale colors and and too sterile an environment. We've been trained to believe that nitrates and phosphates registering on test kits are the result of too many nutrients in the water, so we rush to make the assumption that nutrients are bad and must be eliminated. While this is true to an extent, it does not mean that nutrients are bad and need to be stripped. In fact, they are the catalysts of life in our systems. It's much the same as your lawn. Starve your lawn of water, sun and fertilization and you'll have a nice patch of dirt and weeds surrounding your home. Too many people take it to the extreme of limiting nutrients to the point where corals can't feed, color up and grow. If you eat too many nutrients (food) you'll get fat and possibly sick. If you don't eat enough you'll be lethargic, malnourished and lose the proper pigment, color, and texture of your skin and hair. If you continually starve yourself you'll die.

Natural reefs are nutrient rich but DOC (dissolved organic compounds) poor. What this really means is that planktonic life is constantly bathing natural reefs with food in the water all day long. We simply cannot run a system like that or we'll crash our tanks within days. If you run a ULNS, you have to compensate for what you're stripping out of the water. If you don't run a ULNS, running some nitrate in the water column by feeding your fish and corals a bit more appears to be very beneficial, while keeping phosphate at bay. People that run zeovit tanks most likely achieve true ULNS much better than other bacteria driven methodologies. This is why there is a need for all the additives and foods that the zeolites and protein skimmer and carbon are stripping out of the water column. Reefbum and Mark Polletti are perfect examples of running slightly on the "dirty" side with measurable nitrates in the water column with insane growth and colors that just POP. Phospate on the other hand is the component that many seem to limit as much as possible. Again, many ways to skin a cat. Tank of the Month winner profiles reveal great nuggets of information. Find a tank you like and mimic its' details to see if you can garner the same results.

 

[Reefer1225]

I have a 90. My nitrates are always between 5-10 ppm. Phosphates at 0 My SPS are doing fine, except a couple that I bleached a few (lightning issues). I considered carbon dosing but thought it was too much work and my tank looks fine for now. So, like said above, of it's not broken why fix it?

BTW - I have 1 Yellow Tang and Blue Tang in my 90 and have evaded the tang police for a while now... Shhhhh.

 

[Southreef]

Alex, thank you for the nice post. I think that you needed to remind me of my "less is more" approach when it comes to dosing and the related equipment. I had seen a couple of tanks locally that were being dosed with vodka and they looked pretty clean. The reality is that I am lately having good success with my tank with the afformentioned water changes and relative minimalist approach on equipment. I will be staying the course for now as it seems to be working and my sps are steadily growing and everything seems to be pretty healthy.

Reefer, glad to hear you're doing well with nitrates too. Lol about the tang police. I think that I have found in my realitively short time in this hobby that a lot of us have slightly different views on the ethical treatment of the animals we harbor in our fish rooms. The one thing that I've taken from this hobby and this forum in particular is that 99.9% of the people that visit reefcentral want the absolute best for their little piece of the ocean. I suppose that's why it frustrates me that someone would offer their response in a criticism only format without offering any solution to the "problem" they have identified. Anyway, I digress into what could be a lengthy and unecessary conversation that I am sure has been repeated a million times on this board.

Thanks for all the responses, I think I just needed a little pep talk because I was feeling a litle down in the dumps about my NO3. Cheers and happy reefing!

 

[allsps40]

Nitrates is not your biggest issue. the leather and crowding issue you have with the tangs schould be your first priority before adding sps

I agree I have a good sized green leather. In my old 40B the sps would not color up and I could not figure out why. I started to run more carbon and did a good water change and got a larger much better skimmer. I feel this helped to color the sps up. Now that I have moved into a larger tank coral color is even better. Always run a good carbon in a reactor.

 

[sslak]

my nitrates are always around 20-25 ppm or so and I think i have some good looking SPS and alot of them . I have great P.E on them as well . I skim my tank super wet and feed on the heaver side..i dose nothing , only run carbon and GFO.

I should also mention i keep my temp, cal, mag and alk VERY stable and do 60 gallon water changes every two weeks..I think this is the most important factor to keeping sticks, for me anyway..

How do you keep your CA/Alk stable without dosing?

You must be using Kalk or 2part if you have "a lot of" SPS. Right?

 

[psusocr]

I have a commercial calcium reactor. I meant i didnt dose anythng as far as , pellets, vodka, zeovit, additives etc. I keep it very simple

 

[phasezero]

I have a 90. My nitrates are always between 5-10 ppm. Phosphates at 0 My SPS are doing fine, except a couple that I bleached a few (lightning issues). I considered carbon dosing but thought it was too much work and my tank looks fine for now. So, like said above, of it's not broken why fix it?

BTW - I have 1 Yellow Tang and Blue Tang in my 90 and have evaded the tang police for a while now... Shhhhh.

LOL, a 2 inch convict tang and a 4 inch blue tang in my 55... shhhhhhhhh :worried:

My tap water 55 w/ Hang on CPR aeroforce skimmer and 4xT5 has been great for my SPS. My nitrates sit around 5 ppm.

 

[tnyr5]

I have seen said reactor, it's about the size of a salt bucket

 

[jamey1015]

It's funny because I always thought we needed to have some nitrates and phosphates but than so many people claim to have zero and I too wonder if it's better, but than what do my corals live on? My tank has been less than 10 always and I tried bio-pellets to see about this true zero everyones says is so great only to have a huge cynao breakout that lasted until I took the pellets offline, I wrote the manufacture with my water parameters (nitrates less than 5 and .002 phosphates) and they told me my tank didn't have the ability to support them with the low levels so I'm back at 5 to 10 and the least amount of phosphate possible running gfo and my corals look great and I just keep up on those water changes and recently started and nice new run of sps frags and they all have been doing great and getting respectable growth.

 

[Rwpdunne]

I've been to this place 3 times
http://www.korallenfarm.de/
Joe is a very experienced sps keeper and he keeps his nitrate at 2-5 ppm for better colours

 

[Southreef]

Ok, you guys have me feeling good about my NO3, and even my new frags are starting to take on vivid colors, I am thrilled!

I do however have a growing concern about the leather toadstool. I'm not really sure it needs to be removed because I can't see any signs in the tank that it's bad. Maybe I should change the title of the thread to "Toadstools and SPS.... possible?"